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[EmptyShadow]

But surely if the walls are in a location my marksdwarfs cannot shoot would not give the enemy cover?

[Blank]

So I've read stories about how people have had goblins shoot through fortifications to kill dwarves standing two levels above them. Is this normal, or a fluke? Do the guard towers need roofs to prevent arrows from arching in/giant undead eagles grabbing the loafing soldier inside to practice that Noble Parachuting everyone's going on about in the Dwarven Grand Canyon thread?

And I don't understand the fish stick thing. Why is it funny?

[Greiger]

Yes goblins can shoot back through fortifications, but they do so with a penalty to their accuracy.  If the marksdwarves are lined up in such a way that there is no possible way for a bolt to not hit somebody, yer not going to notice much effect from the fortifications.  Which is one use for multi level fortifications, spreading your dwarves out some.

Arrows travel in a straight line, no arcing.  And if a goblin were to miss so badly for the arrow to fly over the fortifications completely, the falling arrow does no damage.  As it is now just an item, not a projectile.  A roof is a good investment though if you have to deal with fliers.  And it has the minor side effect of keeping station dwarves from getting the caught in the rain thought.

Fishy Stick thing: No fucking clue.

[Sensei]

Enemies can sometimes shoot through fortifications- watch out for those legendary archers. Still though, I think you should never have walls up top, only fortifications at all angles. It hurts their line of sight massively- just go in adventure mode at look how annoying one wall in a line of fortifications is. If they're getting hurt, have them take shelter a Z level down. They won't hide behind walls in a logical manner anyway.

Also, you're just jealous you never got a fishy stick, pushy. T.T

[Wolfius]

Oh fuck. The fishy stick fad is bad enough on Bethesda's forums, please don't start that shit here as well.

hehehe, i found it quite entertaining, but as the forum wishes, i shall do, the fishysticks are no more!

One spoilsport is not the forum - people who feel the need to post complaints about the occasional, easily ignored silliness are best ignored.

Tolerance means putting up with other people, not forcing them to stop doing things you don't like. [/pet peeve]

[nil]

I think the best fortifications right now are the same level, behind a moat; I've never seen any evidence that the engine gives any advantage to height, and between the blind spot and the lower likelihood of a miss accidentally hitting another enemy there are clear disadvantages.  But if I'm wrong, I think the best defensive tower might look like this.

[EmptyShadow]

Wow.
That must have been a bitch to construct, my tiny little watchtower seemed to take ages.

Of course I'm still new so my organization is pretty lacking.

Also I like the unnecessary details on the top.

[Rowanas]

honestly z levels suck for marksdwarves. Build a tower with subterranean access, fortification box and moat it in. Nothing gets in and it gives you unprecedented ease of firing
.......
.xxx.
.xdx.
.xxx.
......

[Albedo]

So I've read stories about how people have had goblins shoot through fortifications to kill dwarves standing two levels above them. Is this normal, or a fluke?

What do you think fortifications do, exactly?  They're not walls, they're just "better than nothing" for defending archers.

They stop some arrows, not all.  The further the archer (NOT "the enemy"!!!) is from the fortification, the more they stop.  They're happy to stop dwarven bolts as well as siegers' arrows, which is why you want your dwarfs up next to them (0 chance of stopping) and the enemy as far as possible.

I could do it with walls too, since monsters cant destroy walls.

If you build walls, then the enemy could, in theory, hide up next to those walls and be safe.  Note that the game engine is not smart enough to tell them to do this, but they could do it by accident, like if they're trying to path around your defensive position.

The only disadvantage of height is that you lose some range - it seems -1 range/+1 z-level diff, up or down.  The disadvantage of being lower is Line of Sight - lost faster against higher targets.

The advantage of a tower is that for 8 stone you can build a 3x3 hollow tower that then protects your masons who can continue to work inside it - that's fast, 100% protection, and a channel is no protection against archers or "being scared".  (I like to dig tunnels to the site and have a stair up to the archer towers, for just those reasons.)  2 more stone for the staircases plus 16 for fortifications (plus 4 stone floors which are then deconstructed for corner fortifications) and you're done, with minimal impact on the level below ground.

Also, tower fort'ns can be built above a siege engine bunker on the target's z-level, if that appeals to you.

But with ground-level fortifications and a distant (5-10 tile?) channel, you have a clear line of sight plus a good stand-off distance from enemy archers.  Some players just don't like (or have room for) the ditches everywhere.

But a lot is personal preference, I'll admit.

I've heard that bolts do less damage when fired up z levels

APC, you keep repeating things that I've never even heard a rumour of.  Not that that's any measure, just saying.  Where did you hear this?

[Slogo]

What about a design for a hybrid tower that houses both siege and archers.

. Open Space
# Fortification
Q Wall
S Siege Engine
^ Stairs
- Floor

Code: [Select]

.......
.#####.
.#---#.
.#^--#.
.#---#.
.#####.
.......

Code: [Select]

#######
#######
##QSSS#
##^SSS#
##QSSS#
#######
#######
The siege can fire safely in 3 directions and with potentially disastrous results in the 4th. Meanwhile the archer tower can fire freely down on attackers without worry of the blind spot.

[Vampire Penguin]

I use tall watchtowers in my walls for aesthetics, but they do have the advantage of shooting over obstacles.

Also, the fishy stick thing: It's an old fad on the Elder Scrolls Forums (Known now as Bethesda Game Studios Forums). When a new member posted, he/she would be given a picture of Captain Morgan holding a fishy stick (instead of rum, which may be more dwarvenly... must look into this.) as a welcome to the forums. I guess Kalida was a fellow former who wanted to bring the fad to Bay 12.

I suggest giving this picture some alcohol, or magma, to adapt to this forum.

[Slogo]

Wouldn't a % be more appropriate?

[kalida99]

well then... BACK BY POPULAR DEMAND

[Sensei]

Well, now that we're officially off topic, I think the most dwarven option would be "Captain Urist's Magma Rum".

[kalida99]

Took me 20 minutes just to recolor the bottle and remove parts of the label, so a HD version is OotQ (out of the question) suggestions? recolor the liquids insde to resemble magma and Re-label?
(for suggestions Please PM me, rather than Severely de-rail thread)