Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Author Topic: My First Oceanside Volcano Fort  (Read 1098 times)

blue emu

  • Bay Watcher
  • GroFAZ
    • View Profile
My First Oceanside Volcano Fort
« on: July 04, 2009, 02:13:50 am »

I've played around with a few easy Forts, but this is the first one I've tried to build in an "interesting" setting. I have no experience with either Oceans, Aquifers or Magma.

On world-gen, I managed to find a location with a volcano tile right next to the ocean. The (7 x 4) map also has sand, obsidian and LOADS of trees... all around the exposed volcano, in fact. Sounds like an accident just waiting to happen. It also has contact with all the civs. Unfortunately, the map also has an aquifer... but not on the ocean biome. I had the sense to buy a crapload of Bauxite on embark.

My original intention was to dig a stairway entrance down through the beach sand to bypass the inland aquifer, and then dig sideways to get at the obsidian layers. I hadn't realized that the ocean waves and tides ran right up the beach.  :-X

Luckily, there is a dike of felsite running right down to the shore, so hopefully I can dig down through it and bypass the aquifer that way.

I have a few questions for the more experienced players:

1) Should I take precautions against the possibility of a forest fire or Fire creatures? What sort of precautions? A ditch? How wide? A wall?

2) Do typical Fire creatures have internal organs?... ie: can I kill them with cross-bows?

3) Is all the water on the map going to be salt?... including the murky pools?

4) Any general tips on Magma, salt water, aquifers, etc?
Logged
Never pet a burning dog.

CobaltKobold

  • Bay Watcher
  • ☼HOOD☼ ☼ROBE☼ ☼DAGGER☼ [TAIL]
    • View Profile
Re: My First Oceanside Volcano Fort
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2009, 02:21:29 am »

2) Do typical Fire creatures have internal organs?... ie: can I kill them with cross-bows?

3) Is all the water on the map going to be salt?... including the murky pools?

4) Any general tips on Magma, salt water, aquifers, etc?
2) Probably- I usually use picks on the lot, unarmored, and it works just fine (w/max-embark mining) so long as the dwarf doesn't get a fireball to the face and doesn't decide that diving into the pipe to dodge is a good idea. War dogs also do a fair job, though tend to be stupider so you'll lose about one per enemy or two.
3) Maybe. The easy test is designating a zone and seeing if it permits drinking.
4) Digging too close to shore will result in waves filling your digging. A constructed reservoir with pumps and a well will be quite handy

You may wish to space your initial beds out a ways, until you deal with all the magma critters- otherwise, you'll lose se'eral to all when one guy catches fire and goes to rest.
Logged
Neither whole, nor broken. Interpreting this post is left as an exercise for the reader.
OCEANCLIFF seeding, high z-var(40d)
Tilesets

ousire

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: My First Oceanside Volcano Fort
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2009, 02:26:50 am »

you have magma and you have water. open up the magma and add water. i doubt many creatures will survive repeated obsidian blocks pounding into their skulls.
Logged

CobaltKobold

  • Bay Watcher
  • ☼HOOD☼ ☼ROBE☼ ☼DAGGER☼ [TAIL]
    • View Profile
Re: My First Oceanside Volcano Fort
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2009, 02:29:13 am »

Yeah, but they often are under overhangs, and thus immune to that particular tack.
Logged
Neither whole, nor broken. Interpreting this post is left as an exercise for the reader.
OCEANCLIFF seeding, high z-var(40d)
Tilesets

ShadowDragon8685

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: My First Oceanside Volcano Fort
« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2009, 02:48:15 am »

1: I would say that's really only the smart thing to do. I can't say for sure if they'll start a forest fire, but it's entirely probable.

2: You can kill anything with crossbows. The question you're asking is, "are crossbows a good way to kill Fire Men and similar beasts." The answer is "no, but they beat most of the alternatives." If you have to confront Fire Men on open field combat, you're screwed. Your only hopes are marksdwarves with high-quality bolts of steel (or even Adamantine if you can spare it!) that do decent raw damage, since you won't be scoring any critical hits. For melee combat, use battle axes and short swords - piercing spears are worse than useless, and they can't be stunned by hammers. Battle axes and short swords have the best critical chance with a critical hit that will mean something (a severed limb.)

Defensively combating them is another matter. It's a relatively trivial matter to lure them into a killing field consisting of a long corridor with a ballasta battery far enough behind fortifications that they won't interrupt your siege engineers and can't throw fireballs that far.

3: Read the gorram wiki. In short, yes, every drop of water on that map will be salt water. All is not lost! You can create desalinated water - Dwarven screw-pumps fortitutiously incorporate a Dwarven Desalinzation Plant. (And here we IRL go through the trouble of boiling and distilling it.) You just have to make sure that at no point does the water touch any natural surface. To make absolutely sure, build a Dwarven Water Tower and step the water up several Z-levels with pumps. However, if you then want to use Dwarven Plumbing to route the water so sourced back into a more convienant location (unless you want to segue your oceanside volcano with a flying fortress megaproject, of course), you'll need to remember that if it touches a natural surface, it will all become salinated again.

4: Don't forget your bauxite Fortifications or steel Grates when channeling magma to your magma smelters. Always remember to leave a way to easily expand any magmawerks you intend to make. Never do engravings on a floor that magma will be passing over - if you get someone rolling a Masterwork on the floor, the magma will obliterate it, and he'll get pissed off. Wall engravings are fine. If you intend to use the magma as a "get rid of stuff" option without dumping it straight into the magma flow at the bottom of the map, remember that temperature must be on before objects will melt/burn away.

For extra Fun, you can use the same liquid-stepping techniques on lava, but the components will, naturally, have to be Bauxite and steel. You can do this and make a hilarious mechanism that steps them above the fort and channels it around the fort, so you can give the besieging hordes a nice lava shower, by creative use of hatches and levers. Make sure to test everything you are planning to use magma in at least once as a dry-run. Even better is if you can charge the system with water for a nonlethal wet run. Remember, it's easier to solve a water oops than a magma oops.

Never leave any system automated without some remote means of shutting it off - preferably you should be able to shut off any individual link without disabling the whole system. Take advantage of the [N]otes features to write down Notes about important stuff - once your Lever Hell gets going, the last thing you want to do is confuse the "charge the system with magma" lever with the "test the hatches" lever half-way through construction and then find out that you rigged it so that once it starts, it won't stop.

Ultimately, working with liquid hot magma is something for which there will be many Learning Experiences. (These will be Fun.) Don't take it too hard if something goes wrong.


And remember - you have Magma and an ocean on the same map. Megaprojects ahoy! Cast obsidian Doom Fortresses beneath the sea!

Lastly, you're probably going to have a bitch of a time getting below the aquifers. Your volcano, however, will actually solve that problem for you, provided you can bypass the peska magman problem. Use Obsidian Caissons to do the job. Remember to start with a Largeass Pit, because each time you have to go down a layer, you will have to shrink the pit. The result will be something like a quarry, much wider at the top than at the bottom.
Logged

AlienChickenPie

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: My First Oceanside Volcano Fort
« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2009, 05:29:51 am »

Forest fires can be deadly. One of my forts had a  canyon with a kobold cave nearby. To eradicate the kobolds, I made two tunnels that took magma from the volcano and dropped it into the canyon. Huge fire, lots of dead kobolds. The trees and usable plants don't burn, but grass does.
To prevent something like this happening with volcano dwellers and your dwarves, you should deforest, pave over and wall off the top of the volcano. If you can't or don't want to do that, pick a safe distance from the volcano, and dig a channel or create a closed paved loop at that distance.
Logged

blue emu

  • Bay Watcher
  • GroFAZ
    • View Profile
Re: My First Oceanside Volcano Fort
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2009, 04:44:43 pm »

I managed to get past the two aquifer levels without needing any special engineering... I found a volcanic dike that extended out into the ocean biome, all the way to the shore. That beach/ocean biome is the only one without an aquifer, so I was able to tunnel down into the dike far enough to bypass the aquifer levels in the inland tiles. I'm now building a tower on the beach to surround and protect my entrance.

No forest fires yet, but fire imps and fire snakes are already running around on the surface near the volcano vent. I've surrounded that whole area with a wide restricted traffic zone to discourage any reasonable dwarf (  ::) ) from coming close enough to antagonize them.

Three questions:

1) Can I construct a suspended walkway out over the sea, which supports a pumping station to pump my water up in relays and into the tower? Since the whole thing will be constructed, there should be no problem with the water reverting to salt. My main concern is that as I build down to approach the surface of the sea, a dwarf might be swept off the platform by a wave, and drown. Does this sort of thing happen?

2) Can I cap the top of the volcano by pumping water (via an aerial aquaduct) and pouring it through floodgates onto the top level of the Magma, starting with the spots that are adjacent to the wall of the Magma vent (so that it doesn't collapse). Is this idea workable?

3) Does rain put out forest fires? I've seen a Fire Imp running around, toasting Snailmen and burning the grass to ashes... but there seems to be no persistent fire, and the ashes don't spread. It's raining... does this prevent a grass-fire?
« Last Edit: July 05, 2009, 08:01:08 pm by blue emu »
Logged
Never pet a burning dog.

The Mad Engineer

  • Bay Watcher
  • Tock.
    • View Profile
Re: My First Oceanside Volcano Fort
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2009, 04:50:12 pm »

Obviously it is your divine purpose to create an obsidian shell over the hated ocean!

Funk

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: My First Oceanside Volcano Fort
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2009, 10:45:14 am »

1)yes you can and dwarfs will be swept of by waves,but if you build it with like so
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Logged
Agree, plus that's about the LAST thing *I* want to see from this kind of game - author spending valuable development time on useless graphics.

Unofficial slogan of Bay 12 Games.  

Death to the false emperor a warhammer40k SG