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Author Topic: I have a fun game  (Read 11509 times)

Puck

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Re: I have a fun game
« Reply #135 on: July 06, 2009, 08:10:29 pm »

Those fundamentalists bash.org thingy wasnt funny at all. It just gave me the chills - in a very bad way. I slept bad after reading that, I kid you not.

Also, so much pity for such hateful people. Can you imagine how horrible they have to feel, if only deep inside, to develop such a personality? And this extremist view of religion, to cover it up, to justify it, to make it somewhat bearable...

I cant help thinking of this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLNhPMQnWu4, but that's a very positive approach, not like I feel about it at all...

Neonivek

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Re: I have a fun game
« Reply #136 on: July 06, 2009, 08:12:53 pm »

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It is completely sick and shows an incredible disregard for half of all the human beings on this planet

Hmmm at this point do Women Outnumber males?

I do know that one way you can tell how advanced/available a countries' medicine and Women's Rights are is by checking Female Life Expectancy.

A Country with suitable access to medicare and decent treatment of women would have it higher then the males.

Anyhow this is really off topic. (Well ok on topic, but it isn't an area I think we should discuss as it will just boil down into Ethnocentrism)

Anyhow Leafsnail you need to calm down a little, your starting to seriously slip up in your statements and leaving yourself open to Logical mistakes as well as exagerations. To demonstrate

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You may say these are empty threats.  Noone would think like that.  Noone would actually kill homosexuals because of their religions, would they?  It's not like the one of the greatest mathematicians that Britain has produced in the 20th century died a pointless death from suicide due to being convicted of being homosexual.  And it's not like Iran still execute gays

The problem is that he is saying their threat are empty. Not that every group has empty threats.

If you continue on with this your going to alienate, polarise, and enrage people. Remaining calm is difficult but it is required to keep the butts away.

Always remember that your opponents likely believe they are right as you are.

Reminds me of a comic that argued against the statement of Equal Validity... They kinda came off as being sorta stupid to be because the point of it isn't to give ground to "The Stupid" but rather as a sign of respect that allows debates rather then fights happen.

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Can you imagine how horrible they have to feel, if only deep inside, to develop such a personality?

Not all of them are really all that bad off, they often come from areas of likeminded people.

People who join cults however... yeah. They are often people with actual tragedy in their lives.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2009, 08:14:41 pm by Neonivek »
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Jualin

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Re: I have a fun game
« Reply #137 on: July 06, 2009, 11:54:28 pm »

Does anyone known as to how well religious fundamentalist organizations are networked, specifically Christian ones?

It might be possible to deal with many of these issue via public debate. If atheists, religious fundamentalists, and a very good moderator could be brought together, it might be possible to get hardliners to adopt a more moderate stance. If fundamentalist organizations are strongly networked, such an effort might have a ripple effect.

Then again, if such a public debate broke down, it might promote worse behavior on both sides.
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Ohaeri

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Re: I have a fun game
« Reply #138 on: July 07, 2009, 08:28:12 am »

Does anyone known as to how well religious fundamentalist organizations are networked, specifically Christian ones?

It might be possible to deal with many of these issue via public debate. If atheists, religious fundamentalists, and a very good moderator could be brought together, it might be possible to get hardliners to adopt a more moderate stance. If fundamentalist organizations are strongly networked, such an effort might have a ripple effect.

Then again, if such a public debate broke down, it might promote worse behavior on both sides.

From what I have seen, they are not strongly networked. And, it seems the more hardlined a church gets, the more it generally slides into "cult" territory (the modern definition), so the less likely it would be for the moderates to have any effect on it.

Consider these hallmarks of a cult (taken from the Cults 101 website):

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The leadership dictates, sometimes in great detail, how members should think, act, and feel (for example, members must get permission to date, change jobs, marry—or leaders prescribe what types of clothes to wear, where to live, whether or not to have children, how to discipline children, and so forth).

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The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s) and members (for example, the leader is considered the Messiah, a special being, an avatar—or the group and/or the leader is on a special mission to save humanity).

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The leader is not accountable to any authorities (unlike, for example, teachers, military commanders or ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream religious denominations).

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Subservience to the leader or group requires members to cut ties with family and friends, and radically alter the personal goals and activities they had before joining the group.

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Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members.

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The most loyal members (the “true believers”) feel there can be no life outside the context of the group. They believe there is no other way to be, and often fear reprisals to themselves or others if they leave (or even consider leaving) the group.

The defining characteristic of a cult is the way it controls and dominates its members. It's not the beliefs that make a cult; it's the abusive way in which they treat their members that makes it dangerous. The more contact with the outside world the cult's members have, the harder it is for the cult to maintain control. Consider also that coming into contact with other people and groups would require the cult to submit to the judgment of peers and to work harmoniously with people who may have a more moderate way of looking at the world.

So while your hope that this can all be solved via public debates or mediation is a noble one and would certainly be nice, in reality it wouldn't work. Cults are not set up to allow their members to get away so easily. Generally the ones who allow their members access to other groups or to the outside world in any capacity have other ways of keeping very strict holds on the members.

Generally I don't see the point in arguing moderate people about religion; they're not dangerous. It's the people who are causing harm to others that are dangerous, and 99% of the time, these people belong to cults.


Aside from theories on the topic that I have, since I did spend some of my early years in a group commune that has since been identified as a cult, I've seen this work firsthand. We never had contact with the outside world--we weren't even allowed to leave the commune without a few friends along with us, and only for very good reasons. There were facilities for meals, school, entertainment, worship, etc. etc. Literally the only time I ever had contact with anyone outside the group was when I would go for visitation with my father. Which, btw, is what got us kicked out of the group; my mother tried to deny my father his visitation rights and he made a big legal stink about it.

EDIT: And yes, I consider WBC to be a cult.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2009, 08:34:25 am by Ohaeri »
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Jackrabbit

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Re: I have a fun game
« Reply #139 on: July 07, 2009, 08:35:54 am »

I'm sure we all consider it a cult. I agree.
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Jakkarra

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Re: I have a fun game
« Reply #140 on: July 07, 2009, 10:43:56 am »

although this will sound retarded,

WBC?

Ohaeri

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Re: I have a fun game
« Reply #141 on: July 07, 2009, 10:45:12 am »

although this will sound retarded,

WBC?

Not at all. And, Westboro Baptist Church. :)
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Jakkarra

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Re: I have a fun game
« Reply #142 on: July 07, 2009, 10:48:17 am »

Kthnx.


just as clarification, not all baptist denominations are EEEEEEEEEEVVVVVVIIIIIIILLLLL cults.

my friend (who is american) was part of the Solid Rock baptist Church.

they gave me a mug, ill post a photo later.

Ohaeri

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Re: I have a fun game
« Reply #143 on: July 07, 2009, 10:50:28 am »

just as clarification, not all baptist denominations are EEEEEEEEEEVVVVVVIIIIIIILLLLL cults.

my friend (who is american) was part of the Solid Rock baptist Church.

they gave me a mug, ill post a photo later.

Yeah, my grandparents belong to a Baptist denomination church, and they're not cultists at all. :)
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Leafsnail

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Re: I have a fun game
« Reply #144 on: July 07, 2009, 11:04:04 am »

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The problem is that he is saying their threat are empty. Not that every group has empty threats.
To some extent.  But the implication is something along the lines of "However bad the things they say are, noone will ever actually do this".  All I'm saying is that total ignorance is not always a laughing matter.

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Reminds me of a comic that argued against the statement of Equal Validity... They kinda came off as being sorta stupid to be because the point of it isn't to give ground to "The Stupid" but rather as a sign of respect that allows debates rather then fights happen.
Can't comment as I haven't seen this comic, but I'm not gonna give a centimetre of ground to the church that believes gays should be stoned to death (at least not on that issue), because it is quite frankly monstrous.  Yes, if someone actually has sensible beliefs, ones that do not harm others, that's better.  Yes, I will concede ground on those.  But just because someone with monstrous beliefs (not regular religion but the kind that involves persecuting others) holds those beliefs really strongly doesn't mean that they are right.

I'm not sure if public debates would work that well, to be honest.  The problem is that the people who are most dangerous are also the least likely to move their viewpoint at all.  They're more likely to simply seize onto any concessions and say "See?  We were right!".  Which is kindof strange, really.  The only people who may be swayed by a debate are the ones who are not worth debating with.

And yes, not all baptist places are cults.  There's a baptist church in my town, and it doesn't seem to be too different from any of the others.  If the baptists had some kind of central authority, they'd probably try to get WBC to drop the word from their name, since their beliefs do not in any way reflect what the majority of baptists think.
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Psyco Jelly

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Re: I have a fun game
« Reply #145 on: July 07, 2009, 01:39:50 pm »

I can't stand being in a church for more than 10 minutes or so. I just have the urge to leave. Fast. And that's in baptist churches. Catholic churches are just plain scary.
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Not only is it not actually advertising anything, it's just copy/pasting word salads about gold, runescape, oil, yuan, and handbags.  It's like a transporter accident combined all the spambots into one shambling mass of online sales.

Jackrabbit

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Re: I have a fun game
« Reply #146 on: July 08, 2009, 05:36:21 am »

Has anyone seen Bruno? I felt so much respect for the man when in one scene he follows this very group (probably protesting at a funeral of someone who thought gays were people too) whilst in bondage with another man and with a TV remote shoved up his ass, trying to get them to unhook him. Bruno is possibly the funniest move I've ever seen.
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Yanlin

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Re: I have a fun game
« Reply #147 on: July 08, 2009, 06:12:57 am »

I plan to buy the movie on the first chance that I see it. Bought a Borat film as soon as I saw it. Now wish me luck in coming across Bruno.
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Jackrabbit

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Re: I have a fun game
« Reply #148 on: July 08, 2009, 06:16:47 am »

Australia gets an early release neener neener neeeeeeeeeeeeener!

It's awesome, seriously. It's so ridiculous I can't even begin, although I might start with the talking penis that looks like it was taken off meatspin.
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Jakkarra

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Re: I have a fun game
« Reply #149 on: July 08, 2009, 10:49:25 am »

well i have "cultural learnings for make benefit glorious nation of Khazakstan" ill need "bruno" to complete the set.

i sure hope he makes more of these films.
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