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[varkarrus]

Most often predators. They will wander around slowly, usually by themselves even if they are pack animals. If they see any living thing, save for one of their own kind, they kill and eat it, no matter what kind of creature is doing the killing.

Just imagine

Hungry Hippo
Urist mcVictim's left lower leg
Dwarf Chunk
etc...

[Byakugan01]

It would make no sense for a pack animal to hunt on its own. Being in a pack *is* the reason that pack animals ARE dangerous. And to be blunt, most herbivores lack the dentition-or any of the other adaptations-necessary for a creature to eat meat. In order to do that, you typically see long, pointed canine teeth and sharp teeth that are capable of cutting through raw flesh. A deer or horse, for example, simply cannot kill an animal and eat it-they don't have the proper teeth for the job, nor the right adaptations for predatory behavior in the first place.

 For a start, binocular vision is an adaptation that predatory animals have since stalking prey involves judging distances-which the wide angle view of horses and other prey animals doesn't allow. It does, however, allow them a much wider field of view than a predator has-which in turn is way for them to spot a predator attempting to sneak up behind them. Then there's the simple issue that animals we would classify as prey animals don't have the hardware required to be reliably able to stalk and kill another animal. The long legs of a deer or a horse are for running AWAY, and don't allow it hide in the grass to stalk prey. And let's not forget, predators typically kill their prey by biting it, often by breaking it's neck and/or by biting so that the animal soon suffocates. A horse, deer, or hell even a camel simply *cannot* do that.

 And animals won't eat meat if they're herbivores, since they don't recognize it as being a food source-the only reason that cattle can be fed parts of other cattle is that it's mixed into their feed, which they do recognize as a food source.

Bottom line: what you are suggesting is a physical impossibility. Herbivores eat plants not because they have vegan morals, but because it's their food source and what they've evolved to extract nutrition from. Obligate carnivores are the same with meat-an obligate carnivore won't eat any plant matter, period, because they CAN'T DIGEST IT. You can have hungry carnivorous animals, but that is about it (A hungry herbivore would eat the grass or shrubs, or starve). Eventually, animals will need to eat anyway as I understand it.

By the way, keep in mind if a omnivore or carnivore is starved enough to attack anything it sees on sight, it would be a weakened and desperate animal-animals do use risk assessment when evaluating whether or not to go after a particular prey, and typically will pick the easiest thing to kill and eat. And if they can smell a kill, they might just go and wait until the animal which made the kill is finished, then scavenge what is left.

[DanielLC]

So, what's your suggestion? Make it so animals need to eat and only kill when they're hungry?

[HatfieldCW]

What happens when the cats run out of vermin... 

Also, "Hungry Hippo" *snicker*

[Pilsu]

I'd like to see predatory behavior but this doesn't work

[varkarrus]

Ok. Maybe hungry herbivores is a bad idea.

And by hungry, I mean like starving. Pretty much all of wolf attacks on humans were done by starving wolves. And starving wolves are often by themselves.

[Byakugan01]

You make a good point there. The Eurasian wolf sometimes hunts on its own, depending on the region and it lives in, and a starving wolf would go after anything it could hunt. Actually, come to think of it, dwarves already do something similar when they reach the starving state, and hunt for vermin if they can't access anything else. A starved cougar or other predator might also attack a dwarf if it can find no other food source (or the dwarf is urist mcunarmedpeasant the dabbling gatherer). This situation might arise if you deplete the populations of game animals  in the vicinity, leaving nothing that isn't a dwarf or pet for the wolf to eat. By the way, wolves will go after rodents and other small prey if they can find nothing else, so them (and other hungry predators) hunting vermin and eating it might be a viable option if they can't get to your dwarves. Hey, meat is meat.

 Alternately, I think that they should show a preference for attacking pets, since pets are a very common target for weakened wild animals. But if the dwarf doesn't have a pet, he just dropped a rung in the food chain. Hungry/starved animals should also give less meat or fat when killed, since they would have been using the energy stored in their fat and muscles to survive.

[varkarrus]

Nice!

As one last suggestion, instead of being allowed to attack dwarves when starving being determined by the appearance of a [CARNIVORE] tag, make a [HUNGRY_ATTACKER] tag. That way, it would be possible to make carnivores that don't attack dwarves when they are hungry (Salmon are carnivores, but they wouldn't dare try to attack a dwarf), and there could be herbivores that attack and eat dwarves that someone could mod in (like the aforementioned hungry hippo)

[Onlyhestands]

Also, certain evil creatures should kill your dwarves, even if they aren't hungry, for fun.

Also certain creatures should get a taste for dwarves after killing one. Say a starving bear eats your ranger. It then hangs around and kills more dwarves, and teaches other bears to eat dwarf.

[Wolfius]

Most [Tame] animals also shouldn't attack dwarves, even when starving to death("...so...many...wardogs..."), and you'd maybe want to add some way to better control the cat population('neuter tame animal' job?  ...hehe, 'neuter goblin thief' ).

Chained and penned animals can be fed via meat stockpile, I suppose.

[chucks]

Here's a few scattered ideas about improved animal handling and caretaking.  This isn't what I would consider a priority request, but certainly a nice to have.  It does pose fixes for catspolsions, freeloading animals breeding like crazy, and animal food consumption.  It has a few points that might inspire attention paid to the caretaking and handling of animals, and would be a nice to have, fun feature.

• animals only spawned when well fed and in good health
• actual procreation would have to exist as a task between
• a free roaming animal or an animal being led by a dwarf with the animal handling/care job enabled
• another free roaming, chained but accessible, or dwarf led animal of the opposite gender
• a 'mate creatures' option in the kennels or siiimilar workshop if you wish to induce procreation between some animals
• a 'neuter/spay animal' option to the kennels if there is the desire to create creatures unable to procreate together.
• Have free roaming animals go to rooms where dwarfs are eating to beg for scraps and handouts and leftovers.  If they can access a food stockpile, have them go ransack the pantry if begging in the eating areas is unsuccessful for too long.  An animal with a mischevious personality could also just outright attempt to ransack the pantry on the first go, too.
• Have a 'feed animals' job auto-spawn for restrained animals similar to plant harvesting job, with a very long time for a hungry animal to wait before starting to starve and possibly die if left ignored too long.  The time and even job triggering could possibly be based off of current fat layer thicknesses, representing a withering away of the creature.  Dwarfs with the 'animal care' labor would feed animals.
• Have a 'water animals' job auto-spawn for restrained animals.  'animal care' labor.  Free roaming animals could drink directly from water sources as they wish.
• each creature could have a possible diet and manner of feeding put into their descriptions
  
  • Grazing creatures and livestock could feed themselves from grasses, shrubs, plants, fruits, vegetables, beans, berries, nuts, etc.
  • Vegetarian creatures may eat from outside fruits, vegetables, grains, nuts, beans, etc.  Basically, a subset of a grain eater's diet.
  • Carnivores could eat vermin, small creatures, cut raw meat, prepared meats, dried meats, and cooked meats.
  • Omnivores would be like having the vegetarian and carnivore flags on at once
  • stalkers (ie, domestic cats, foxes, snakes) could take down animals smaller than themselves for food.
  • hunters (ie, dogs, wolves, hyenas, coyotes, jackals) could take down animals smaller or equal in size to themselves for food as individuals.  If a pack of same species creatures hunt together (or if a dwarven noble rallied up a hunting party with a large number of hunting dogs), they could hunt together for larger animals.  Animals without the [TAME] flag (anything other than your own dogs) could go after your dwarfs or other humanoids for food if they so wish.
  • large predators (large wild cats, wolves, some reptiles, some primates) could even choose to hunt creatures larger than themselves, and would pose significant risk to small hunting parties.

Anyway, that's all I have right now.

[Onlyhestands]

I think spaying animals is a bit too advance for this time period.

[HatfieldCW]

I bet it would be pretty easy to set up a spay clinic with a kennel, just do it like you do war and hunting dogs.  It would let us get all the utility out of cats without the horrific consequences.

[chucks]

I do agree that spaying might be too advanced for the era in civilization that the game represents.  However, atleast having the male gender able to be neutered would be enough to stave off catsplosions and insane livestock breeding rates.

[Granite26]

Obligatory dev items post (though there's a good chance this wasn't on the list when this thread was created):

# Req509, CASTRATING ANIMALS, (Future): Dwarves should be able to castrate male animals. Spaying female animals might be beyond the ability of dwarves to do reliably.

Pfft... it is not above dwarven ability to do reliably on females....

One Needle, One yard of thread, and one chain (To hold said animal in place).
Female animal has 95% of orifice sewn shut. Prevents penetration and pregnancy.