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[Slogo]

I'm interested in trying a construction project that works like the following and I was wondering if anyone else has done something like this.

Essentially what I want is the entrance of the fortress to be controlled by a bridge (probably a few Z levels down). On each side of the bridge will be pressure plates set to work for dwarves. Above the bridge will be a channel of water (or magma) with a screw pump at the end over the bridge. When the pump is active it will pump water out of the channel on to the bridge. Below the bridge is a resivour/moat and a series of screw pumps that fill the upper channel again. The previously mentioned pressure plates, when stepped on by a dwarf, will stop the flow of the water/magma either by a floodgate, disabling the pump or some sort of other series of mechanics. But any goblins or other baddies trying to come in won't activate the plates and should get doused by magma/water when they try to cross the bridge.

Now there's some problems with my construction plan (other than siting and building the complex system). So I'm curious if anyone knows the asnwers to this...

-Will dwarves be willing to path across the bridge if magma is raining down on it (since they won't be smart enough to know that the flow will stop)?

-Will the magma clear off the bridge fast enough to allow them to pass?

-What would be the best way to ensure that the water/magma doesn't start flowing again too soon. I could use a floodgate but I'd be worried about multiple dwarves stepping on it and screwing up how it works. Otherwise I can just play around with how the screw pump works and the size of the bridge or something.

[Albedo]

On each side of the bridge will be pressure plates set to work for dwarves....

Flaw.  PP's (and placed traps) aren't triggered by dwarves or friendlies.

(nm - was thinking about pathing gobbos.)

Dwarves path at that moment - they don't predict what "might" happen.  (Gawdz, if they did they'd be paralyzed with fear and NEVER move!) 

[Slogo]

PP's have a setting to be triggered by civilians from my experiences in game and on the wiki.

[Scarpa]

As far as the magma fall goes, I think you'll still have at least 1/7 Magma on the ground once the fall stops which will hurt the dwarves.

I like the idea though. I have a similar plan in my head based off the magma/water falls in "The Incredibles" where the fall is "split" to allow entrance.

[AtomicPaperclip]

Don't you set whether they are tripped by fort members or not?

And I don't think that they will path through magma so you'll have to do some micromanagement if you want them to pass through there.

[Jim Groovester]

You'd probably have to use grates instead of bridges to walk across, but it's certainly doable. And I would recommend your lavafall work the opposite way: your dwarves can path safely across it, but any goblins or enemies will be doused with magma. With the way you have it now, and from how I think pressure plates work, both goblins and dwarves would be able to safely pass across it.

And magma spillage would be a serious issue to deal with.

[Albedo]

PP's have a setting to be triggered by civilians from my experiences in game and on the wiki.

You're right - brainfart.  Confused two topics in my head, nm. Fixed. 

[Slogo]

Yeah with magma I think grates are going to have to be the only option.

Dousing goblins with magma is the easier of the two to do but it also looks a lot less interesting. If I only wanted to keep goblins out there's a lot of other ways to do that.

I'm hunting for a good site right now so we'll see how it turns out.

[DanielLC]

You could make two pressure plates before the magmafall, have the first set to goblins and the second to everyone, and make it so the magmafall stops if the second is triggered and the first isn't. I'd suggest controlling the magmafall via filling and emptying reservoirs, like so: (side view)

Code: [Select]

   power
#####|#
#¢¢¢%%##
#^~~~~~#
########
The ¢s are hatches with water on top of them. When someone walks on the pressure plate next to the magma fall, it opens the hatches, dropping the water into the reservoir, which triggers another pressure plate, which stops the pump to the magmafall. The other pressure plate that the goblins step on would use a slightly larger reservoir and make the magmafall pumps go anyway. Logic gates are simple to do with mechanisms.

[Slogo]

Well the map I ended up on has two magma vents right next to eachother of different heights. My entrance runs between the two. So my plan is to simply dispose of the magma by pouring it from the higher to the lower pool. My only problem at the moment is my mason seems to refuse to make a bauxite Grate If I forbid all stone but bauxite and queue up "Make Grate" he refuses to work at the workship even with no other tasks.

Edit: Turns out I don't think I even need a Bauxite grate as I have some nickel silver!

[yuhhaur]

-Will dwarves be willing to path across the bridge if magma is raining down on it (since they won't be smart enough to know that the flow will stop)?

"Urist McDorf cancelled crossing bridge: dangerous terrain."
NO. Dorf are too afraid of magma.

-Will the magma clear off the bridge fast enough to allow them to pass?

define fast enough. A 1/7 magma would take around 10,000-15,000 frames (base on my observation) to clear off. A typical 50fps would takes about 5 minutes.

-What would be the best way to ensure that the water/magma doesn't start flowing again too soon. I could use a floodgate but I'd be worried about multiple dwarves stepping on it and screwing up how it works. Otherwise I can just play around with how the screw pump works and the size of the bridge or something.

That is the beauty part of DF. Play with it and let us know how it works out.

Well the map I ended up on has two magma vents right next to eachother of different heights. My entrance runs between the two. So my plan is to simply dispose of the magma by pouring it from the higher to the lower pool. My only problem at the moment is my mason seems to refuse to make a bauxite Grate If I forbid all stone but bauxite and queue up "Make Grate" he refuses to work at the workship even with no other tasks.

Edit: Turns out I don't think I even need a Bauxite grate as I have some nickel silver!

Did you enable the bauxite usage in the z-stone menu?
I always set up a stockpile of bauxite aside of the workshop in a lockable room, filled it and once I need to do bauxite stuff, get the mason in and lock up the room. Then only I enable the bauxite in the z-stone menu.

[Mraedis]

What you need to worry about is the amount of dwarves crossing in either way. 

[Slogo]

I have an idea for how to both stop the flow properly and keep it open longer if more dwarves go to cross. The problem I have no is that I don't have a source of water to implement my contraption or enough magma-safe materials to do it.

Of course according to the above poster it wouldn't work anyways as the dwarves would cancel their pathing =(

[Thexor]

One thing to bear in mind - what happens when two dwarves use the system at once?

* Dwarf A steps on a plate, disables the trap, and walks on to the bridge.
* Dwarf B steps on a plate, re-enables the trap while Dwarf A is still on the bridge, and then walks on himself.
* i_population = i_population - 2; 

[Slogo]

Well the system I had in mind was a more complex series of gates/logic to control this. Since dwarves won't path through lava apparently and that it'd take many seasons to gather the bauxite and iron for the device I've gone with a lava 'dumper' rather than a persistent waterfall.

At some point I may try to create a lava-fall in the fortress though just not one that blocks a path. At the very least I want to design some tombs where lava continuously pours on top of the (magma safe) coffins before draining away.

Anyways my plan now is like this... (and no it's not dwarf safe so those little buggers are going to have to keep clear)

-My entrance pathway is 3 tiles wide, at some point I'll place 3 pressure plates followed by a length of floor grates.
-Before the plates there are some traps just to take care of any stragglers or riffraff. Infinite lava or not I don't want to waste it all on a single injured dog, stray goblin, or some beserk dwarf.
-Above the floor grates is a chamber full of floor Hatches and flooded with lava ready to dump. The lava will flow into the chamber from all/most sides.
-Below the entrance pathway is a large chamber to collect the magma and pour it out into my lower magma vent for disposal.
-There is a 2nd channel (1 tile wide) running from the upper to lower magma vent. This channel is controlling the release of the magma.
-In the aforementioned channel there are 1 door, 1 floodgate and 3 pressure plates. The channel looks like this:
m is magma, + is door, p is pressure plate # is wall and , is floor and . is open space (hole)

Code: [Select]

#m#
#+# (door1)
#+# (floodgate)
#p# (p1)
#p# (p2)
#,#
#,#
#,#
#,#
#.#
that open space drops down into a channel that looks like this before draining away into the magma vent.

Code: [Select]

###
#,#
#p# (p3)
#,#
So here's what happens...
1. p3 is tied to door1 and set to be active on 0-2 magma level. This will keep the door open to start.
2. When a monster steps on a pressure plate the floodgate opens allowing the magma to flow. Since it's a floodgate it will ignore the off messages while opening hopefully ensuring that it stays open long enough for the trap to work if monsters are trampling across the trap.
3. p1 is tied to the floodgate and set to 2-7 magma level. So when the door opens and magma flows out this plate will send another on message (to reopen the floodgate if it closed immediately on opening).
4. p2 is set to 2-7 magma as well. It is tied to the floor hatches and is responsible for releasing fiery death on those below.
5. When the magma flows down the channel after a while it will land on p3 turning it off closing the door. This will cause the above chamber to eventually drain of magma and resetting the system for the next set of goblins. This 2nd door is important because it will also prevent the system from desyncing (I'll include a lever just in case it does anyways) since the p2 won't be sending an 'off' signal until much lava has already been dumped and all goblins are ideally dead.

The result should be a slightly delayed release of magma to ensure that the goblins are all in harm's way with an automatic shut-off (there will be an emergency lever as well of course) after the burning. If a few goblins manage to somehow make it through I still have a military + trap field so I'm not too concerned about it.

I'm also not really concerned about the dwarf safety. The entrance is only ever used by caravans. The only time my dwarves ever need to go out that way are to pave roads for the caravans. For all other outdoor activities I have two inaccessible terraces (the only way to get to them is to fly or to go through the fort) and my wood demand is pretty low given the magma.

And yes I love overly complex machines that probably won't work.

So far the fort is progressing really well but I'm still short on magma safe materials to finish up the contraption. I think I have 7-8 pieces of bauxite (I started with 5) and enough metal for a few grates. Do I need to use magma safe materials for the doors and floor hatches? The wiki kinda made it sound like any stone would do.