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Author Topic: Floor Construction  (Read 2148 times)

Roara Wolf

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Floor Construction
« on: July 01, 2009, 07:27:22 pm »

Maybe this was already suggested, possibly even by me. If so, I apologize etc.

Bridges can be made with multiple tiles per individual unit of stone, wood, or whatever.

I think that floors should be done like this too - especially now that multiple tiles can be constructed at once. It seems a little silly that a tile of floor costs the same as a tile of wall (which ends up counting as a floor for the tile above.)

How this will work with deconstruction and similar things, I'm not sure, though. Maybe partial stone cuts, or something? Hmm.
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Impaler[WrG]

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Re: Floor Construction
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2009, 10:02:48 pm »

The only solution I can think of is to make some of the tiles 'hollow', they outwards appear to be made of some kind of material but when deconstructed they leave nothing.  The real building materials would be dispersed randomly so that all the real building materials are still their and can be recovered if everything is deconstructed.
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Fossaman

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Re: Floor Construction
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2009, 10:14:50 pm »

The easiest way to handle this is to produce multiple units of stone per mined tile. Require all of them for a wall, and only some of them for a floor.

But that would be cluttering, and nobody wants that.
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Silverionmox

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Re: Floor Construction
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2009, 05:00:41 am »

The easiest way to handle this is to produce multiple units of stone per mined tile. Require all of them for a wall, and only some of them for a floor.

But that would be cluttering, and nobody wants that.
I do. But I want better hauling and storage first.
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Tenebrais

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Re: Floor Construction
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2009, 09:11:06 am »

Perhaps say that up to five floor tiles can be made from one stone but only every fifth deconstructed floor produces a stone.
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Granite26

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Re: Floor Construction
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2009, 09:12:26 am »

The easiest way to handle this is to produce multiple units of stone per mined tile. Require all of them for a wall, and only some of them for a floor.

But that would be cluttering, and nobody wants that.
I do. But I want better hauling and storage first.
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Starver

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Re: Floor Construction
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2009, 09:29:02 am »

Perhaps say that up to five floor tiles can be made from one stone but only every fifth deconstructed floor produces a stone.
"if rnd() < 0.2 then ..."?
Or "deconstructed++; if deconstructed>4 then deconstructed=0 && ..."?
Or ditto but with "deconstructed{materialtype}" to avoid placing four <rubbishfloor>s strips for every one <nicefloor> one, and deconstructing tiles in strict order to recover what you like while 'evaporating' the one you don't care too much about?
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Starver

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Re: Floor Construction
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2009, 09:34:01 am »

The easiest way to handle this is to produce multiple units of stone per mined tile.[...]
Meant to quote this.  After all, while it might work in the game, it would be silly (and/or quite useful to Evil Geniuses wanting to create underground layers [darnit: I meant 'lairs', silly fingers typing the homophone] without generating loads of spoil) if in the real world you could dig into a mountain, and what rock didn't just disappear under your inexpert tunnelling skills you could lay as a floor in the very area you just opened, as if you had sweept it under a carpet. ;)
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Granite26

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Re: Floor Construction
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2009, 09:35:21 am »

good eye on the exploit, Starver

Starver

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Re: Floor Construction
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2009, 10:19:01 am »

good eye on the exploit, Starver
An eye, only.  I've never actually done it (knowingly, at least), and not even classed it in my mind as an exploit, merely an oddity of the DF universe.

But I was thinking, inbetween my last post and this:

Based upon the standard layout (I think) of each minable block in a single Z-level being 1 unit floor and 7 units space (as defined by the liquid measure), mining should produce 7 units of rock per square.  Cutting a channel would produce the lower level's 7 units and this level's single floor unit.  Channelling a floor already over a void would produce the floor unit only.  (For now let's ignore where this rock will 'go'.)

As for building, a pillar[1]/wall segment (upon a floor) should need 7 units of rock.  Building a pillar/wall over a chasm would involve the eighth block.  Laying a floor on an open space involvesa single unit.  Laying a floor where a floor already exists (above a void or not) uses a single unit of new material, but brings up a single unit of the original material.

Trees may provide a different proportion of wood material (not filling the entire 'unit square', except for massive 'redwoods', but of course all but the youngest fellable trees extending into the Z-level(s) above) and may be used less 'densely' (hollow partition-style walls, floorboards with voids below, and treatments for the lower level ceiling as required... possibly a different allowance for vermin movement).

Workshops could have wooden legs on their workstations with stone worktops, to pick and choose as materials are available (or required, for certain workshop tasks) and a chair would use less wood than a wooden table (a stone table may need more stone, for integrity's sake, and may need two haulers to jockey into position).  Earrings and other small items would need minute amounts of material (many more multiples per unit stone than DF currently gives for such as mugs, etc, and/or create a large amount of sub-unit waste that needs spoil-tip hauling (useful as aggregate in wall and road building, as well as other purposes?).



Note that this is not a DF developmental change that I'd advocate, because it may be too great a leap for existing players to absorb without problems.

I'm also sure that the above mechanics/physics have been discussed to death, even without searching the boards.


[1] Given you can squeeze between diagonally-adjacent pillars, there's additional adjustments that should perhaps be made to account for the difference between 1x1 cross-sectional area of a full wall and pi*0.25 cross-sectional area of a round pillar, e.g. 6 rock units for a pillar, but when orthogonally adjoined to another pillar, wall, wall end or natural and undug rockface, another unit is needed to perfect the seal.  The maths still isn't perfect but could be fudged, or made better by using 64 unit divisions/etc and taking into account all wall faces, and/or assuming that even wall doesn't take up a whole cross-section, but recessed on all sides that don't abutt with other walls.  Effectively taking up the square, but allowing treatment of the wall as two-sided where you can attach decorative features (paintings, arasses, stone alcoves/relief murals) on one side or the other of the partition within the space between edge of 'square' and the wall.
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Silverionmox

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Re: Floor Construction
« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2009, 11:51:18 am »

Based upon the standard layout (I think) of each minable block in a single Z-level being 1 unit floor and 7 units space (as defined by the liquid measure), mining should produce 7 units of rock per square.  Cutting a channel would produce the lower level's 7 units and this level's single floor unit.  Channelling a floor already over a void would produce the floor unit only.  (For now let's ignore where this rock will 'go'.)
So effectively the floor is replaced with a constructed floor of the new stone? Wouldn't it be more prudent to just put it on top, as a floor decoration? Removing floors when you order to construct is unexpected.

Note that this is not a DF developmental change that I'd advocate, because it may be too great a leap for existing players to absorb without problems.
They've absorbed bigger changes.. not to mention the next release.
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Starver

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Re: Floor Construction
« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2009, 12:08:03 pm »

Based upon the standard layout (I think) of each minable block in a single Z-level being 1 unit floor and 7 units space (as defined by the liquid measure), mining should produce 7 units of rock per square.  Cutting a channel would produce the lower level's 7 units and this level's single floor unit.  Channelling a floor already over a void would produce the floor unit only.  (For now let's ignore where this rock will 'go'.)
So effectively the floor is replaced with a constructed floor of the new stone? Wouldn't it be more prudent to just put it on top, as a floor decoration?
Seems to me such a thin covering would be less than the one unit of channel-removing material.  Unless you're happy for only 6 layers of water depth above the new floor, and a bit of a step between natural floor and "built upon" flooring.

Or I might be misreading your objection, I'm about to wander off for the night and may have misunderstood.
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Sowelu

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Re: Floor Construction
« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2009, 01:08:57 pm »

Yay, Roara is back!

Yeah, I think this is a job for something like "mine stone, convert 1 stone to 4 bricks, mason can hold 4 bricks at a time, use 1 brick to build 1 floor".  Then, deconstructing floor would give you 1 brick again.  But it does need better hauling first...
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Silverionmox

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Re: Floor Construction
« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2009, 03:30:23 pm »

Laying a floor where a floor already exists (above a void or not) uses a single unit of new material, but brings up a single unit of the original material.
It's this I should have quoted.

If you get a block of the original material when you put a floor on, does that mean the floor is removed? What happens when you remove that new floor in turn?
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Starver

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Re: Floor Construction
« Reply #14 on: July 03, 2009, 09:29:06 am »

Laying a floor where a floor already exists (above a void or not) uses a single unit of new material, but brings up a single unit of the original material.
It's this I should have quoted.

If you get a block of the original material when you put a floor on, does that mean the floor is removed? What happens when you remove that new floor in turn?

Several examples, all starting and ending up the same, just by slightly different routes.


1) Digging through level, {produces 7 units of bauxite}
X) Not touching the level below
3a) Building a floor means removing the natural one (mason's tools only, not pickaxe, maybe a minor delay for traversing dwarfs) {produces 1 unit bauxite}
3b) Putting in the new one {uses 1 unit mica}
4) Removing the floor {recovers 1 unit mica}
Code: [Select]
Level2.0: Chalk   [1] Chalk  [X]  Chalk  [3a]   Chalk  [3b]  Chalk  [4]    Chalk
Level1.7: Bauxite DIG (Open)      (Open)        (Open)       (Open)        (Open)
Level1.6: Bauxite DIG (Open)      (Open)        (Open)       (Open)        (Open)
Level1.5: Bauxite DIG (Open)      (Open)        (Open)       (Open)        (Open)
Level1.4: Bauxite DIG (Open)      (Open)        (Open)       (Open)        (Open)
Level1.3: Bauxite DIG (Open)      (Open)        (Open)       (Open)        (Open)
Level1.2: Bauxite DIG (Open)      (Open)        (Open)       (Open)        (Open)
Level1.1: Bauxite DIG (Open)      (Open)        (Open)       (Open)        (Open)
Level1.0: Bauxite     Bauxite --- Bauxite STRIP (Open) FLOOR Mica   REMOVE (Open)
Level0.7: Gneiss      Gneiss      Gneiss        Gniess       Gneiss        Gneiss




1) Digging through level, {produces 7 units bauxite}
2) Channeling into the level below {produces 1 unit bauxite, 7 units gneiss}
3) Building a new floor over the gap {uses 1 unit mica}
4) Removing the floor {recovers 1 unit mica}
Code: [Select]
Level2.0: Chalk   [1] Chalk     [2]   Chalk   [3]  Chalk  [4]    Chalk
Level1.7: Bauxite DIG (Open)          (Open)       (Open)        (Open)
Level1.6: Bauxite DIG (Open)          (Open)       (Open)        (Open)
Level1.5: Bauxite DIG (Open)          (Open)       (Open)        (Open)
Level1.4: Bauxite DIG (Open)          (Open)       (Open)        (Open)
Level1.3: Bauxite DIG (Open)          (Open)       (Open)        (Open)
Level1.2: Bauxite DIG (Open)          (Open)       (Open)        (Open)
Level1.1: Bauxite DIG (Open)          (Open)       (Open)        (Open)
Level1.0: Bauxite     Bauxite CHANNEL (Open) FLOOR Mica   REMOVE (Open)
Level0.7: Gneiss      Gneiss  CHANNEL (Open)       (Open)        (Open)




1) Digging through level, { produces 7 units bauxite}
2) Digging through the level below {produces 7 units gneiss}
3a) Building a floor means removing the natural one (which also exposes the level below, no passage for non-mason during this period) {produces 1 unit bauxite}
3b) Putting in the new one {uses 1 unit mica}
4) Removing the floor {recovers 1 unit mica}
Code: [Select]
Level2.0: Chalk   [1] Chalk  [2]  Chalk   [3a]  Chalk  [3b]  Chalk  [4]    Chalk
Level1.7: Bauxite DIG (Open)      (Open)        (Open)       (Open)        (Open)
Level1.6: Bauxite DIG (Open)      (Open)        (Open)       (Open)        (Open)
Level1.5: Bauxite DIG (Open)      (Open)        (Open)       (Open)        (Open)
Level1.4: Bauxite DIG (Open)      (Open)        (Open)       (Open)        (Open)
Level1.3: Bauxite DIG (Open)      (Open)        (Open)       (Open)        (Open)
Level1.2: Bauxite DIG (Open)      (Open)        (Open)       (Open)        (Open)
Level1.1: Bauxite DIG (Open)      (Open)        (Open)       (Open)        (Open)
Level1.0: Bauxite     Bauxite     Bauxite STRIP (Open) FLOOR Mica   REMOVE (Open)
Level0.7: Gneiss      Gneiss  DIG (Open)        (Open)       (Open)        (Open)


Adjust for wooden flooring as required.


NB. Production of unit rocks could be "up to <foo>", to echo current conditions with inexpert mining, or perhaps "X units of usable material and Y units of spoil, where X+Y=<foo>".  Or maybe X+Y+Z=<foo> where X = construction grade (large blocks), Y = suitable for making craft items and Z = rubble useful only for hardcore.  Many variatns possible.


I'm also tempted to postulate that LevelN.0 is floor, LevelN.7 is ceiling, digging takes out LevelsN.1-6, channeling takes out LevelN.0, and LevelsM1-7 below.  That way any 'internal view' would give a consistant view of (native material) floor, wall and ceiling covering for any particular level (constructed floors and ceilings aside!).  Except of course that by this time we're probably in a mind to reimplement rock strata to not be coincidentally horizontally parallel with all mine-workings, you'd be cutting through strata layers (and even sloping ones, of course) with ore veins being down to 1 unit/cross-section and more advanced veign-following needs. :)


[Edited for minor error in diagrams, if any others still exist, I'm sure you'll work out what I mean!]
« Last Edit: July 03, 2009, 09:32:43 am by Starver »
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