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[Davion]

If you thought Baldur's Gate 2 was lame then you'll probably think Fallout 1 and 2 are lame as well.

[Virtz]

If you thought Baldur's Gate 2 was lame then you'll probably think Fallout 1 and 2 are lame as well.

I thought BG2 was lame while FO 1 and 2 weren't. BG2 was focused on party-based combat and its combat lacked any oomph. It felt like dully draining away HPs. Didn't help that I don't like D&D. FO1 and 2 are more dialogue/quest oriented, there are hardly any "dungeons" in them. And I still felt the combat was better than BG's HP drainage (if only for the called shots, text descriptions and gore).

[a1s]

speaking of, Dakk, can you briefly explain which aspects of Bladur's Game you found lame and/or boring. This will help us determine if Fallout is the game for you.

[Dakk]

If you thought Baldur's Gate 2 was lame then you'll probably think Fallout 1 and 2 are lame as well.

I thought BG2 was lame while FO 1 and 2 weren't. BG2 was focused on party-based combat and its combat lacked any oomph. It felt like dully draining away HPs. Didn't help that I don't like D&D. FO1 and 2 are more dialogue/quest oriented, there are hardly any "dungeons" in them. And I still felt the combat was better than BG's HP drainage (if only for the called shots, text descriptions and gore).

This.

I mostly only played the game for the plot. The game used a horrible version of the D&D ruleset (don't remember which, but it wasn't 3.5 for sure), and here's the reasons to why i didn't like it:

1-Generally boring combat, i only felt i had to actually think as a wizard and even then it felt like it was more about micro managing then actual tactics, being a warrior was incredibly dull, and my favorite class, the rogues (thieves in the sucky ruleset it used), were terribly broing to use since they were nerly useless alone, and in a party all they did was disarm traps and pick locks, and just pulling out some sneak attacks in combat as the warrior tanked everything. After a while my party would become powerful enough to make any use of tactics sorta pointless, except for bosses or certain enemies.

2-Dungeons, gosh, nearly everything in the game was dungeon related, It was aways go to the omnious dark palace of doom to kill X, or retrieve X, or do X, and get out alive while looting the shit our of everything, but remember you'll meet dozens of generic monsters on the way.

3-Hated the music and sound effects. I aways had music turned on after a few hours into the game. Just a minor factor though.

4-I don't like RPGs that force me to use a party for most of the game. I'm fine with a single companion or with quests that make me cooperate with some NPCs and gain some temporary party members, but things get annoying after you realize the game was built to to force you to use 3 characters at the very least.


The only two factors i really care about are 1 and 4. Plus i like fallout's setting hella lot more then generic D&D fantasy setting.

[a1s]

The game used a horrible version of the D&D ruleset (don't remember which, but it wasn't 3.5 for sure)

1-Generally boring combat, i only felt i had to actually think as a wizard and even then it felt like it was more about micro managing then actual tactics, being a warrior was incredibly dull, and my favorite class, the rogues (thieves in the sucky ruleset it used), were terribly broing to use since they were nerly useless alone, and in a party all they did was disarm traps and pick locks, and just pulling out some sneak attacks in combat as the warrior tanked everything. After a while my party would become powerful enough to make any use of tactics sorta pointless, except for bosses or certain enemies.

Well, I won't lie to you, the combat system won't be much better (some will argue it's worse as it's turnbased with sometimes a doezen enemies in it). most of the time sneaking (again, we're talking in combat) will be pointless as the enemies will be in groups and armed with guns. Though maybe with some interesting perks you might get sneaking to work (I haven't tried it).
However fallout is better on all 4 other points (not sure about music, but it's very non-intrusive)

[Davion]

Yeah, if you thought the hybrid turn-based/real-time mechanic in Baldur's Gate was boring then get ready for Fallout 1/2 where you will be spending half an hour in combat, mostly waiting for 10 enemies to navigate through terrain and houses to get close enough to shoot at or whatever.

[Dakk]

No no no you got it all wrong, i don't think BG2's battle system was boring because of the turn based hybrid, in fact i think i'd like it more if it was totally turn based ala jagged alliance, what i hated about it was how the party and the character classes were supposed to fit on it. If it involved more navigation and planning, it'd be hella more fun, i'm not bored because battles took long and careful planning, but because they were generic and ended too fast, very few were the times i had to fight more then 6 enemies at once.

[Virtz]

No no no you got it all wrong, i don't think BG2's battle system was boring because of the turn based hybrid, in fact i think i'd like it more if it was totally turn based ala jagged alliance, what i hated about it was how the party and the character classes were supposed to fit on it. If it involved more navigation and planning, it'd be hella more fun, i'm not bored because battles took long and careful planning, but because they were generic and ended too fast, very few were the times i had to fight more then 6 enemies at once.

Well, generally fighting too many enemies in FO1/2 initially means death. Especially in FO2. FO2 is one of the few games I played where you couldn't beat the encounters at the beginning of the game and had to run away.

Although I don't think it's that variable. I can only recall one occassion where I had to boost myself with drugs to beat some raiders, normally it was pretty straight forward approach/shoot at most vital spot probable/use stims/melee. But there is a great difference between fighting a group of raiders at the beginning with only a pistol, knife and few bullets and later interrupting fights between two low-tech groups and being able to shrug off everything they throw at your power armour and devastating them with a minigun.

I suppose in FO1/2 preparations for combat count more than actual tactics in combat (which essentially come down more to utilizing turn-based mechanics than "tactics").

But hell, try it for yourself. Assuming you can run it in XP, there's a semi-beta sort of demo for Fallout 1, with a demo town similar to Junktown from the full game. It doesn't feature map-travel from the full version (and thus no random encounters), there's no "talking heads" and I recall the fonts being plain. But you'll get an example of game dialogue, stat system and of the combat system.

[HonkyPunch]

This thread makes me want to reinstall fallout 2, and make a character with an extremely low luck skill, but high in everything else.

[a1s]

it's actually not that fun. low luck just means you very rarely get special encounters, and less criticals. I actually played a full game of that.

[Goron]

it's actually not that fun. low luck just means you very rarely get special encounters, and less criticals. I actually played a full game of that.

and you can't get the sniper perk:-)

[HonkyPunch]

Eh, fair enough. I'll max out my luck and charisma instead

[Ivefan]

Max luck and pick jinxed for amusing stuff.

[Zironic]

There are some people who could never like Fallout 2. While I respect their decision, these people also think Hitler had the right idea and are wife beaters. I'm not judging anyone here, since it's entirely their right to wear adult diapers and never wash their hands after going to the washroom.  Just saying that there might be a correlation between their inability to understand calculus and being able to enjoy Fallout 2.

*cough*

Because I have been raised in the non-isometric generation, Isometric games are harder for me to comprehend unlike top down 2d and 3D games. It takes a lot more for me to get into them, than just supposed awesome gameplay. I have to stick at them for a while, and the problem is, Fallout 2 never really gave that chance. The version I played was extraordinarily buggy and required me to use DOS emulation, which meant, while I could play Fallout 2, it was much more of a hassle than many other great games.

I find your obsessive fandom offensive. Half the games people tote as being the peak of PC gaming are terrible, pieces of shit, that don't stand up compared to actual gaming today, but are still worshiped due to nostalgia.

On other hand, Fallout 1, 2, and tactics are all available in a special 20 dollar package, sold at stores. This version is windows compatible.

[Sergius]

How does sneaking work (i aways play a rogue type character)?

AFAIK, the sneaking skill only reduces the noise you make when walking (or running if you take the Silent Running perk). Once hostiles have Line of Sight to you then combat starts and they gain initiative. So you have to be careful to only sneak when their backs are turned.

Is it possible to snipe things from afar ala jagged alliance?

Enemies only see you when at a certain range and you can start combat (turn based) mode at any time, so yes, you can fire with a long range weapon. There are sniper rifles and later there's gauss rifles with have huge range. Laser rifles and hunting rifles aren't too shabby either. There's no separate "snipe" action.

Is it nescessary to have an actual party, or i can choose to play with only my little vault dweller?

Your followers have their own AI and you have no control, so most of the time they'll simply draw a bit of attention away from you, and will shoot at targets of opportunity, but you can't really micromanage them into an engine of fiery death like in Baldur's Gate, so yeah, I'd say they're optional: they help a little but they're not super useful. And since death is permanent, more often you'll find yourself reloading a game because one of the followers was stupid to run right in the middle of 50 super mutants and got flayed, killed, raped and incinerated, in that order. Also, sometimes they're assholes and spray you with bullets to kill the giant foot-long radroach that was behind you, even when asked to avoid friendly fire.

How long is the game, in hours, playing on normal difficulty and not wanting to get every single thing in the game (which i will, if i like it)?

Fallout 1 and 2 are the only games where I've only done whatever "side quests" I felt like doing, because I found about them, and not try to solve every single thing for completeness sake. It feels very organic... no need to force yourself to take every single side mission. It is a good idea 'tho to visit every locale even if you don't do every "quest".

Does my character's animation actually changes when he's sneaking (sort of a random question, but i hated how my character on baldurs gate just went semi transparent and stood there with the posture of a tango dancer while supposedly sneaking)?

No, I don't think there's any kind of visual feedback when you're sneaking. But I think a little green text that says "sneaking" pops up somewhere and it disappears if you do anything that cancels stealth mode.