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[Bricks]

I like the idea of weaker sub-civilizations forming alliances with bigger ones.  Embarking on a map with, say, a kobold camp, could lead to some initial skirmishes follower by a hasty request for protection in return for peace and treasures.  I could totally see a kobold raider party being sent out to do your bidding once the army arc is up.

Actually, any sort of tribal race should have some related civilization properties to make small trades (Puzzle box for your land?) and form alliances, though maybe Snakemen would never really be interested in peace.

[PTTG??]

"Tribal" is no longer used by sociologists, partially due to the negative connotations it has acquired. Currently the closest term is "Band-and-Village".

@Scale_e: As I said, these creatures represent the various stigmas that the average superstitious peasant of middle-ages Europe or a conservapedia contributor may have of "the jews." These are, as I hoped was obvious, not my views of the people.

Of course, Dwarf Fortress need not write it's self closely to the idea, but that is the origin of the idea.

[Footkerchief]

The Kobolds are not the Gypsies (I keep forgetting what a Gypsy is... Hungarian?)

The Roma/Romani.  They're mostly in central/eastern Europe.  I guess the most neutral way of describing them would be as an extreme example of the minority ghettoization problem.  Let's not turn the thread into a discussion about them though.

[Guy Montag]

Eh, I always imagined Kobolds to be like little fantasy-settling Vietcong. Hiding in tunnels, gnawing on fishheads and relying on guerrila tactics and suprise ambushes to make up for what they lack in size and ability.

Crude trap systems would fit that archtype. Nothing like mechanical weapontraps with steel axes or anything, but simple camoflauged pitfall traps, snares and stonefall traps would make sense.

As for surviving worldgen, any attacking army civ would just scatter any collection of Kobolds and not worry so much about exterminating every single last one of them. They'd be a low priority target and the Kobolds themselves would back off if their actions were that provoking.

[alfie275]

Embark on a kobald camp and you get:
Cat:"A civilisation! Protect the world from the skulking filth!"

[CoyoteTheClever]

I love the idea of kobolds cozying up to more powerful civilizations. I think they should at best fit the role of troublesome allies though, seeing as how I doubt a kobold would really be able to contain their kleptomania for the sake of their allies, and if they took the field with an allied army and there was even a slight chance of failure, they'd probably just scatter, leaving their allies in the dust.

I think that all civilizations though should have at least a chance to get powerful, so that way it is possible to generate a world dominated by kobolds, goblins, humans, and the like, and such worlds would be very different as far as political landscape goes. In this sense, I think kobolds should have some natural advantages. For instance, because of their trapping ability, they should be very difficult to assault. Also, unlike dwarves, kobolds live in pretty large caves, so they are less invasive diggers than the dwarves are, so perhaps they should have friendlier relations with cave and subterranean type creatures (As they have nothing of value to steal, the kobolds have no reason to piss them off), and should be able to sometimes form loose alliances with them.

It might be interesting to see what a kobold dominated world might look like. It'd probably be fairly primitive, brutish, and anarchic (As opposed to a goblin dominated world, which might be heavily based on slavery, brainwashing, and oppression by goblins and their allies), and perhaps even the more primitive subterranean races would freely walk the surface, hunting humans and the like.

[Maggarg - Eater of chicke]

But Kobolds are so adorable :3

[PTTG??]

Eh, I always imagined Kobolds to be like little fantasy-settling Vietcong. Hiding in tunnels, gnawing on fishheads and relying on guerrila tactics and suprise ambushes to make up for what they lack in size and ability.

Crude trap systems would fit that archtype. Nothing like mechanical weapontraps with steel axes or anything, but simple camoflauged pitfall traps, snares and stonefall traps would make sense.

As for surviving worldgen, any attacking army civ would just scatter any collection of Kobolds and not worry so much about exterminating every single last one of them. They'd be a low priority target and the Kobolds themselves would back off if their actions were that provoking.

Check, that sounds awesome and consistent. In fact I think the poor foods are a part of the characterization; Kobold Bulbs are cheap food that nobody likes; I imagine they are kind of like onions. Kobolds, naturally, are forced into such marginal land that it's one of thier main subsistence foods.

Bascially, I see Kobolds as being almost a parody of the various low-level glurgs that PC's chop through by the thousands; in this case, they are rather sympathetic and realistic, but still crushed under the player's bootheel. Often literally.

[Capntastic]

Bascially, I see Kobolds as being almost a parody of the various low-level glurgs that PC's chop through by the thousands

And by parody, you mean 'the standard, as shown in thousands of computer and tabletop games', right?

[jaked122]

Eh, I always imagined Kobolds to be like little fantasy-settling Vietcong. Hiding in tunnels, gnawing on fishheads and relying on guerrila tactics and suprise ambushes to make up for what they lack in size and ability.

Crude trap systems would fit that archtype. Nothing like mechanical weapontraps with steel axes or anything, but simple camoflauged pitfall traps, snares and stonefall traps would make sense.

As for surviving worldgen, any attacking army civ would just scatter any collection of Kobolds and not worry so much about exterminating every single last one of them. They'd be a low priority target and the Kobolds themselves would back off if their actions were that provoking.

Check, that sounds awesome and consistent. In fact I think the poor foods are a part of the characterization; Kobold Bulbs are cheap food that nobody likes; I imagine they are kind of like onions. Kobolds, naturally, are forced into such marginal land that it's one of thier main subsistence foods.

Bascially, I see Kobolds as being almost a parody of the various low-level glurgs that PC's chop through by the thousands; in this case, they are rather sympathetic and realistic, but still crushed under the player's bootheel. Often literally.

THIS IS WHY NOBODY IS THEIR ALLY, THE ONIONS!!

[Guy Montag]

Yeah, the Kobolds just always seemed to portrayed like a stereotypical characterture of the Veitcong from the eyes of a 'Nam vet or something.

Kobolds are rinky-dinky rat-men that hide in dirty tunnels, eat grubs and rice and fishheads, they need next to nothing to survive and have absolutely no standard of living. They will happily sleep in the mud if it means they have a margin of safety. They eat garbage, bones and are thin and weak due to malnutrition. They have no concept of hygene, personal space or privacy.

Kobolds will either retreat or lose terribly in open combat, but will slit your throat when you sleep and take anything of value off your body. Cunning but cowardly, they resort to "dirty tricks" and hiding in the dirt to fight a superior enemy, which is just about EVERYTHING other then other Kobolds. They sneak around, evade your own traps and defenses. Their technology is obsolescent. Kobolds rely on copper weapons, and only the smaller weapons they can weild effectively, daggers, spears, shortswords, bows and crossbows.

They defend their habitats with pungi sticks in the bottom of a pit, thin slits dug into the dirt where they can open fire on intruders. Going into a Kobold's tunnel network is treacherous to the extreme.

A bit like this thread http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=17326648 is talking about, applied to D&D.

[SirHoneyBadger]

When poisons get here, I think that kobolds should be the absolute best at using them. They'll poison their weapons, traps, even enemy wells, livestock, and food-sources. They may not stand up well as soldiers, but you won't want to mess with them, because of all the deadly toxins at their disposal.

I also want (and will mod) them using many different exotic animals and monsters as pets, warbeasts, and calvalry, up to and including GCS. Kobold calvalry archers riding GCS suddenly become a little more than "just a nuisance".

I strongly disagree about the "dragon connection". It's too reminiscent of D&D.

I like the idea of them using traps, though, and-while I don't think they need to have the ability to hotforge anything better than copper, metalwise-I think they should be able to use extremely elaborate and sophisticated traps, for the materials they *do* have.

Copper and spidersilk armour could also be a strong tool for them, as could exotic weapons made from GCS silk (weighted silk nets lined with poisoned fish-hooks could be used to great effect, offensively or defensively).

When the magic arc gets here, I'm additionally hoping that the kobolds will be strongly favored.

[CoyoteTheClever]

Here is a good scenario for Kobolds in the magic arc: A Kobold master thief steals a wizard spellbook and happily returns to his cave, showing his Kobold friends his new find. Some particularly curious and intelligent Kobolds attempt to learn from the spellbook, but the result is most become maimed or injured by the wards on the book... at least until one kobold grasps the magic within and learns how to use a fireball.

The idea here is that kobolds won't be particularly adept at magic, but they might learn it from their possessions sort of intuitively, though at some personal risk depending on how well protected the magic is.

[SirHoneyBadger]

I disagree entirely about kobolds being inept. Sure, they are right now, but they're a major Civ, and as such they should eventually become as competent and dangerous as dwarfs, in their own way, as the things they're good at get added to the game (poisons, and then magic).

In my opinion, kobolds as primitive buffoons, just isn't a good end-product to aim for. It doesn't really add enough to the game to excuse them being a major Civ. I say, leave most of the comic relief to grimelings and such.

I personally like to think of kobolds being a very old, aboriginal civilization, that might have even worked with (or against) the HFS before they were locked away or whatever.

I think they'd have a lot of subtle knowledge about magicks both ancient and dark. Maybe not fireballs, but more insidious spells that would be a lot weirder and, potentially, a lot more dangerous.

[Rysith]

I personally like to think of kobolds being a very old, aboriginal civilization, that might have even worked with (or against) the HFS before they were locked away or whatever.

I think they'd have a lot of subtle knowledge about magicks both ancient and dark. Maybe not fireballs, but more insidious spells that would be a lot weirder and, potentially, a lot more dangerous.

I like that. I'd think that they would also be very good at using lesser magical effects well. Fireballs seem too flashy, though.

For another possible end goal for them, in terms of "difficult to fight, easy to scatter", check out the infamous Tucker's Kobolds

I also feel compelled to point out that both goblins and kobolds were originally mischievous spirits, and had nothing to do with unpopular minorities. Kobold, for example, is where the name "cobalt" comes from.