Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[MrFake]

No traders will bring bauxite, I doubt I'll find any here, and I'm not willing to resite or regen just to get a stone type.  But, however can I make my favorite room: the goblin melter?

Well, moving the magma around is easy with pumps, but a magma shower is kind of tricky for me.  Pouring magma into a reusable room requires a drain or a smasher.  I can't make a bridge or floodgate smasher without bauxite.  A collector basin below the room will just slowly accumulate magma until it overflows, so I need a creative way to either drain or control the basin.  Here are my ideas so far:

• Fill basin to near full from a spout tapped into the magma source (a pipe).  Then, use a second spout as the shower that taps directly into the basin.  I can refill the basin as needed, but emptying it completely (say for maintenance or cleaning) will be difficult.
• Route a drain from either the basin or the shower room to just above the magma pipe.  This seems sensible, but besides basically doubling my work (and the pipe is pretty far away), I don't know enough about magma pipe mechanics.  If I put a layer of magma on top of the pipe, and that layer never evaporates, maybe it could overflow the pipe and I'd be screwed.  Do magma pipes function like aquifers, in that I can pump magma into them and it just disappears?
• Water.  I've only used buckets of water, both to try and lower the level of a magma basin and try to make obsidian.  I know the latter didn't work, but I can't remember if it actually lowered the magma level.  Buckets are slow, though.  If I pump in water, it will clear the basin faster, but wouldn't I be left with obsidian to mine out?  Hey, that doesn't sound so bad, but I'd like to do this without too many extra steps.
• Doors.  This isn't about draining, but access.  If I build a magma-safe door, no mechanisms, just the door, will it stop magma flow completely so long as it stays closed?  I need a way in and out of the room without having to construct and destruct floodgates each time.
• An alternative way to control magma without the use of bauxite.  Hopefully some way to smash it.

Any comments or ideas?  Thanks

[Brody]

Doors, as long as they remain closed while magma is in the room, will hold up, but if anything gets stuck in them, you're screwed.

[Haedrian]

1. Well you can always cheat and edit the raws.
2. I'd suggest the water one personally
3. (Dunno if it'll work)

Build a room with the middle part having a channel, and block it off by putting a constructed wall underneath it. Whenever you want to drain the room, remove the constructed wall anyway you like.

[Sukasa]

If you have steel, you could use a system similar to this:

Code: [Select]

OOOOOOOOO
OB++++++BO
OB++++++BO
OB++++++BO
OB++++++BO
OOOOOOOOO
Where the Bs are raising bridges that lower to cover the entire area of the cistern.  Simply fill the cistern partially, engage the bridges once, and no more magma, if I recall my magma mechanics.

[kefkakrazy]

For my modded version of DF, I created a new metal type. It's refined from iron at a fairly wasteful exchange rate (three bars per) but has the same tag that allows you to make mechanisms out of adamantine and matches the melting point of.... either adamantine or bauxite, I don't remember which.

[MrFake]

kefkakrazy: I tried to do just that (with five bars), but I thought you had to gen a new world for any changes in the raws to take effect.  In that case, I'd rather just do a better job finding an embark point.

Sukasa: I thought magma will melt the bridge mechanism and deconstruct the bridge.  Or, maybe that's only if magma flows over it?  Hmm...

[Ashery]

Can't you just use Iron/Steel/Nickel/Nickel Silver for the pumps/doors/etc?

Your only restriction will be mechanisms. Pumps would actually be the easiest way to control the magma as the mechanism doesn't have to be magma proof (no direct contact). Could also just pump the magma from the room back up into the basin.

For the water/obsidian farms, I personally recommend using bridges holding water above the farm that can drop precise amounts of water, but there are other methods that can be used.

Brody's comment regarding doors is correct, but if you want to be sure the doors don't get destroyed you can still use a magma proof metal. Actually, that's irrelevant because if the door leaks magma, I'm pretty sure the door being destroyed will be the least of your concerns.

[Lummox JR]

Not all changes in the raws require a regen, but I don't know how well that has been explored. Changing smelter reactions is known to work without a regen so long as you don't try to add new ones or take away old ones. Changing creature flags also works without a regen.

I suspect you can get away with changing a common stone type's melting point without a regen. I don't know if that would impact existing items or not, but if the melting point is moddable without a regen then you can just build new items and ignore the old ones, as long as you have some way of telling which is which. Probably you don't have to go that far.

[Efun]

Mechanisms still work if they are just stone, ive used them and they weren't bauxite, ive used them for prolonged amounts of time with temp on and nothing but the sweet, sweet flow of liquid sexiness.

[Greiger]

Pumps are, in my opinion the best way to control magma without magma safe mechinisms.  Rig them up to a power system (from above or below to prevent axle heat damage) and you can even have them lever controlled.  Just don't make those pumps out of wood or ice. 

Apparently the individual parts can take heat damage while constructed and the whole thing will fall apart mysteriously when it is finally destroyed.  Wood and ice have low enough damage and melting points to be harmed by the magma's bleeding heat.

As for mechanisms surviving direct magma contact, they usually will.  Just as long as the magma never occupies the same tile as the mechanism.  Mechanism linked floodgates usually work fine to block the flow, but once they are opened they will quickly lose the ability to ever close again when the mechanism(and possibly the floodgate itself) melts.  As the previous poster said, I have heard reports of non magma safe floodgates surviving being open, but every attempt I have ever made results in a melted floodgate, so use at your own risk.

[Duke 2.0]

Mechanisms still work if they are just stone, ive used them and they weren't bauxite, ive used them for prolonged amounts of time with temp on and nothing but the sweet, sweet flow of liquid sexiness.

Was temperature on?

 Again, the only restriction you have is mechanisms. There is another stone in the raws that is magma proof in real life, but I forget which one it is. Considering the fact that not all stones have true temperature information, such a modification would be in the spirit of DF.

 Alternately, you can use pumps as a form of door. Here is my suggestion:

 You have your cistern next to the room you want to flood. If you want to flood the room, turn on a pump above the cistern that pumps the magma into a small hall above the flooding room. The hall will drain into said death room. Then a second pump connects to a parallel hall that will take the magma back to the magma cistern.

[SolarShado]

Again, the only restriction you have is mechanisms. There is another stone in the raws that is magma proof in real life, but I forget which one it is. Considering the fact that not all stones have true temperature information, such a modification would be in the spirit of DF.

This. There's actually a mod that includes real melting temps for most (if not all, i haven't looked at it in a while) types of stone. I forget the name. IIRC there were quite a few stone types that were magma-safe.

[Shakma]

I think magma sitting on a bridge squares even if it is raised will deconstruct it if it has a stone mechanism.  An evaporation room would work.  Re-pumping to the start of the fall shouldn't be that hard though.
 

[SolarShado]

I think magma sitting on a bridge squares even if it is raised will deconstruct it if it has a stone mechanism.  An evaporation room would work.  Re-pumping to the start of the fall shouldn't be that hard though.

Yep, yep, and I'm not so sure.

Evaporation room'd be the easiest to do, but might cause trouble if you need to triger the trap too often.

[MrFake]

Hmmm... I might be able to stand modding a rare or valuable stone type into a magma-safe material--realism isn't important, just the spirit of the challenge.  If I ask too much more, I'd need to have this topic moved, but one more question: adding or removing reactions may need a regen, but what about adding a melting point tag to a stone?  Because, I tried that first, and while being totally above my head, I do remember that it looked like not all materials had that information.

Anyway, that's the easy way out.

What about the reverse of the common water-over-magma evaporator?  i.e. pouring a cistern full of water into the room, maybe or maybe not drowning the victims; pouring magma into the room to melt the survivors; then having the magma drain out into the water.  How does that work with eliminating magma/creating obsidian?  If I can manage to only have small quantities of magma drip into a full tank of water, is that enough to produce obsidian buildup?  If conditions are right, I could include some atom smashers to both clean up buildup and eliminate the water as needed.

Also: steam.  Can it melt flesh?  Thoughts.

And thanks for the ideas.