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[meanjeans]

Hi all,

I've been trying for a couple hours to get this lighted central stair column from df wiki ( http://dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Design_strategies ) to work. Unfortunately, no matter what I try, 2 levels and below the surface keeps becoming "inside." The wiki says that inside tiles, even lighted ones, do not prevent cave adaptation. Can someone provide some details about how to get the lighted central stair column to work?

Basically what I've done is dig up/down stairs all the way to the surface. Then I channel the surface level where I had the stairs, replace it with a downstair, move 1 level down, channel the stairs on that level, replace with more up/down stairs, etc, all the way down. 1 level below the surface stays outside, but everything else becomes inside. Any help?

Alternately, is simply 'lighted' enough to prevent adaptation? If so, I think I'm golden. I did a few searches here and saw some people saying they weren't sure. Anyone know for sure?

Thanks,

mj

[Untelligent]

The stairs are inside because the stairs above them make the stairs below them inside.

Not sure whether it's dark/light or inside/outside that causes cave adaptation.

[Jim Groovester]

The stairs are inside because the stairs above them make the stairs below them inside.

Not sure whether it's dark/light or inside/outside that causes cave adaptation.

From what I hear on these forums, it's light/outside that removes cave adaptation. Light/inside, apparently, does not remove nor cause cave adaptation.

If you're concerned about cave adaptation, use this as an opportunity to do something interesting architecturally. Extend that staircase above ground a little, and put a statue garden or a meeting zone at the top of a tower.

[Untelligent]

I would suggest a meeting zone (with statues, optionally) rather than a statue garden (as in an actual one designated from an statue), as the latter will cause dwarves to party instead of work, while the former will just give them a place to stand while they're waiting for their next job.

[LegacyCWAL]

I took a look at the page, and the section on cave adaptation was almost entirely incorrect.  I went ahead and erased it so as to keep it from misinforming other people

[HatfieldCW]

I would suggest a meeting zone (with statues, optionally) rather than a statue garden (as in an actual one designated from an statue), as the latter will cause dwarves to party instead of work, while the former will just give them a place to stand while they're waiting for their next job.

Aha!  Brilliant!  I did the statue garden thing (channeled out the roof and built a wall around the hole's perimeter for safety) and it's a 24/7 non-productive rumpus room in there.  Almost missed a caravan because my broker wouldn't take the lampshade off his head long enough to go barter.  What's worse, these guys are making friends, and my mortality rate is making a tantrum spiral more and more likely.  Meeting area.  Nice.

[nutzy]

Was anyone else expecting to read about stairs made from burning lignite blocks?

At any rate, I think this is the worst idea promoted on the wiki. One of my first forts that didn't get flooded within a year or two had a single 3x3 staircase going from the surface to the bottom z-level. Each dwarf had to use the staircase to get booze, to get food, to eat, to go to work, to go to bed. Then. . .

A vile force of darkness has appeared

Order all dwarfs inside. . . 

[Scruga]

I took a look at the page, and the section on cave adaptation was almost entirely incorrect.  I went ahead and erased it so as to keep it from misinforming other people

You actually did it :O you touched the wiki. Gj though ;P

[Tcei]

At any rate, I think this is the worst idea promoted on the wiki. One of my first forts that didn't get flooded within a year or two had a single 3x3 staircase going from the surface to the bottom z-level. Each dwarf had to use the staircase to get booze, to get food, to eat, to go to work, to go to bed. Then. . .

A vile force of darkness has appeared

Order all dwarfs inside. . . 

Most of my forts have a central staircase that reaches up to the surface. I never gave much thought to this issue, but then again I tend to also make smaller stair wells scattered around the remoter areas of my fort, in an atempt to get certain dwarves to and from their work areas faster. Or end up building a small tower above the entrance that houses the baracks and armory.

[loopoo]

I took CAVE_ADAPT out of my Dwarves. I think it's extremely stupid. And it's a pain in the ass...Seeing as I have to contend with Orcs, deadly animals, and other stupid races, I think it's a fair compromise.

[HatfieldCW]

Making floors out of glass doesn't solve the problem, does it?

[LegacyCWAL]

Making floors out of glass doesn't solve the problem, does it?

Nope.  It's gotta be completely open to the sky.  Even a grate makes everything below it count as being inside.

[Scruga]

I took CAVE_ADAPT out of my Dwarves. I think it's extremely stupid. And it's a pain in the ass...Seeing as I have to contend with Orcs, deadly animals, and other stupid races, I think it's a fair compromise.

Does this work to my current save immediately?

[Stargrasper]

I took CAVE_ADAPT out of my Dwarves. I think it's extremely stupid. And it's a pain in the ass...Seeing as I have to contend with Orcs, deadly animals, and other stupid races, I think it's a fair compromise.

Does this work to my current save immediately?

Yes, I believe that such a change should work fine without genning a new world.

[Truean]

It's a bit of a challenge, but you could floor off the top Z level. Then everything counts as "inside." I have also done the "staggered dug ramp" idea:

**\          I*****
***\         I*****
****\       I*****
*****\     I*****
******\   I*****
*******\  I*****
********\I *****

Notice how the ground above all the of the ramps is dug out and exposed to the sky. If you do this, be sure to have an "indoors stairway" nearby that is marked heavy or restricted traffic. This takes care of "all dwarves stay inside" problems by providing an inside stair, which circumvents the problem of an outside stair in seiges. Have areas dug around the sides of your exposed dug out ramps to allow passage from one side to the other. This also allows you to have a caravan come down into your fort instead of bringing all your trade goods to the caravan ("30 min bringing items to depot???").

I actually do not like this approach due to decor reasons.
Therefore, I do not use it.

Another approach would be to use "tweak" program to make all the stairs register as outside and light via tile edit.

Or, you could edit dwarves to not have sun problems.