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[Micro102]

we dont need to know it. its just IF eveything can be detemrined by math, then that means everything can be predicted.

Atom A ricochets off Atom B and hits human brain A which causes him to recall lunch which makes him get food which causes him to set off a billion other chain reactions....Think of it this way, if you had 1000 marbles all stationary, and move one in a frictionless windless enviornment and the marbles are perfectly elastic, with simple physics you could predict all the future paths of those marbles right? well because you know you can since the first marble has already begun moving and you cant interfere with it the outcome will not change

well that first marble is the begining of the universe or whatever and we and everyhting else are the other marbles, where even us discussing this and trying to change the future was already set in motion googles of years ago

[LegoLord]

we dont need to know it. its just IF eveything can be detemrined by math, then that means everything can be predicted.

But unless we can actually test it, we don't even know if everything can be determined by math.

[Mr Tk]

we dont need to know it. its just IF eveything can be detemrined by math, then that means everything can be predicted.

Think of it this way, if you had 1000 marbles all stationary, and move one in a frictionless windless enviornment and the marbles are perfectly elastic, with simple physics you could predict all the future paths of those marbles right?

It's a petty we live in a universe which doesn't have 'simple' physics. As Ampersand I have been saying there are things in the universe which defy 'simple' physics.

[Micro102]

its more logical that everything can be determined by math then not....and this is just a theory....but if we can determine everyhting by math thenmy theory is correct

[LegoLord]

its more logical that everything can be determined by math then not....and this is just a theory....but if we can determine everyhting by math thenmy theory is correct

Again, we lack the information to determine which is more logical.  There are many things that cannot be determined mathematically, just spin around and point at random things a few times.  Yet they turn out to be more logical than a version or explanation that can be determined by math.  Second, you don't have a theory, you have a hypothesis, and it is physically impossible to test it.

[Micro102]

i dont get what you mean but its just something to think about....as in everything we are doing right now, even what your saying was already going to happen trillions of years ago

[Ampersand]

we dont need to know it. its just IF eveything can be detemrined by math, then that means everything can be predicted.

Atom A ricochets off Atom B and hits human brain A which causes him to recall lunch which makes him get food which causes him to set off a billion other chain reactions....Think of it this way, if you had 1000 marbles all stationary, and move one in a frictionless windless enviornment and the marbles are perfectly elastic, with simple physics you could predict all the future paths of those marbles right? well because you know you can since the first marble has already begun moving and you cant interfere with it the outcome will not change

well that first marble is the begining of the universe or whatever and we and everyhting else are the other marbles, where even us discussing this and trying to change the future was already set in motion googles of years ago

Like I said, particles, and even atoms only behave as purely physical objects when they are in direct interaction with other physical objects. In the time between, they behave as waves of probability.

[Mr Tk]

i dont get what you mean but its just something to think about....as in everything we are doing right now, even what your saying was already going to happen trillions of years ago

Maths proves that not everything is preordained (Diagonal Argument), quantum physics prove that not everything is preordained (Light cones, Hisenberg's Uncertainty Principle).

Even if Maths was about to compute the future then just trying to predicate a few minutes ahead of your life will take longer than your own life time because of the complexities involved.

[Micro102]

i find those arguments not too related to what im talking about.

[Another]

Trillions years ago information about what I am saying hadn't existed. My own existence was only one of the possibilities back then. Neither future, nor complete set of information about it doesn't even exist right now.

About everything that is determinable by math - maybe, but that would require a math system of uncountable complexity. No "complete" math theory can be finite (or in any way reducible to a finite set of basic principles) by Goedel's theorem. Check set of all sets that don't contain itself as its own member and other first order logic paradoxes.

I also suspect that faster than light information transfer would imply that it is transferred back in time at least in some reference frames which would open a possibility to altering your own past and logical paradoxes.

[Micro102]

all the atoms that collided and events that happened lead up to now, and it always was gonna happen like that, because there was nothing to change it. nothing that lets someone see excatly what will happen so they can change it because you cant build the impossible universe simulating device. and even trying to change or figuring out whats gonna happen next might be predetemrined as well, since intellegence is created by the brain which was created by past events.

[LegoLord]

None of that actually supports your hypothesis, Micro.  At this point you're just saying that things are predetermined.

[Micro102]

that is my hypothesis....you just misunderstood my hypothesis before.

[Ampersand]

Retroactive probability is meaningless. If I flip a coin, and then let it land face up, the probability that it landed face up is 1/1. However, the probability of it landing face up or face down while it is spinning in the air is 1/2.

Of course, this is is only metaphorical, as coin flips can be predicted given specific input. The metaphor stands for the half-life of radioactive elements and the like.

[Heron TSG]

I didn't read the topic as I don't have much time. (I did read the OP.)

Even if you went with the argument of two people having differing genes and therefore THAT is the only reason people make differing choices, that is wrong. My brother and I have the EXACT same dna (twins) and we make different choices in the same circumstances all the time.