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[jryan]

I think it would be cool when there is a legendary craft dwarf in your fort that the corresponding shop would get some legendary-skill only build options....

Like, for instance, a metal crafter that can make metal beds

Or a Leather Worker can make leather couches

etc. etc. etc.

[Deimos56]

I think a leather couch would be more of a joint effort between a carpenter and a leather worker. Although that begs the question of what would be the point of a couch?

[G-Flex]

I think we need LESS distinction between legendaries and regular workers, not more.

[chucks]

With the burrows announcement, it would be interesting to see a chain of command like system for burrows and work areas.  Legendaries could be treated like nobles, and perhaps various guild leaders could be elected or appointed from various trade guilds.  Have a legendary armorsmith?  He's not going to take work orders from that armorsmith over there that is only just a skilled armorer.

It simply makes sense that guild leaders should have noble requirements and mandates, and perhaps a dedicated office area or master craftsman area could be part of that arrangement.

[Calvin]

It needs a higher level than legendary.

I'm tired of seeing all my dwarves flashing.
Despite it being good, it gets boring and annoying, y'know.

[Pilsu]

The workshop getting bonuses makes no sense

[G-Flex]

It needs a higher level than legendary.

I'm tired of seeing all my dwarves flashing.
Despite it being good, it gets boring and annoying, y'know.

Moods happen too often and/or they give too much skill, and skill in general is too quick to raise within the context of a dwarven (or even human, or even dog) lifetime. That's pretty much the problem: That dwarves reach the highest possible skill level too quickly and often, especially for certain jobs. Doesn't matter whether it's Legendary, Legendary+5, Super-Legendary, or whatever you want to end up calling the highest skill level.

[chucks]

I strongly argree that the training to legenedary in less than 2 years is quite preposterous, and I would like to see it nerfed.  I also agree that artifacts happen too often to immediately promote to legendary, and I would like to see them more frequently with significantly reduced experience given to the maker.

Perhaps cap the system at some point (say master or something), and then require that only if the dwarf already at the highest max regular level can go legendary if they they complete an artifact or slay a megabeast or some such thing.  Miners would probably need to do something like cut a gem cluster perfectly out of a wall or something, and I would love to be able to define min/max skill levels for mining areas similar to workshop jobs.

[SirHoneyBadger]

I wouldn't mind having some kind of quality levels for workshops (although I'd hate to see it so simplified as "this is a masterwork workshop")...

I also think, as far as Legendaries go, they're FAR too thick on the ground. Our "Legendaries" are pretty much the real-world equivalent of "accomplished", anyway. The skill-tree, as it currently is, could be a whole lot taller, and harder to climb, and maybe have a few branches in it, too, for that matter.

Having a few specializations that incorporate more than one basic skill (leather couches, for instance) would be really nice to see.

[Pilsu]

The problem is the speed of work, not the amount of it. Forcing the player to grind more won't do anything

[SirHoneyBadger]

I agree with you about forcing it.

Grinding for the sake of grinding should be discouraged, since it's unrealistic and game-breaky, but I don't think the solution is to remove it, or even to keep it in it's current state.

If you make it so that pure grinding is such an ordeal that only the obsessive-compulsives will bother with it beyond a certain point, and also add other, more interesting, methods of increasing experience in various skills, then it would not only make the game feel more real, but also make it a whole lot more fun.

There might be actual choices involved, and maybe even a little bit of role-playing.

For instance, we might be able to loan our dwarfs out to the Mountainhome (to whatever backwoods podunk "Fortress" they send our dwarf to, that is). Mountainhome "grinds" for us, and returns our dwarf to us (hopefully--as accidents do happen), with increased experience, and a slightly better political relationship.

On the other hand, we could hire them out to the humans, in which case they'd get paid, but the items they make could end up in the hands of the goblins, and they'd *certainly* end up in the hands of the humans.

As it is, the "grinding" we have in the game is just too short a process to even matter. It's just a distraction in the early part of the game. If it were made a lot longer in it's pure form, but also made more optional, rather than a requirement, I think a lot of people would be happier.

[Pilsu]

I don't think sending your guys offscreen to level up would make it any better. That's just dull. Though I can see Masters sometimes being sent out to teach apprentices, much like they'd be sent into your hovel to teach harder skills to proficient. You could even see the Masters you yourself trained visit if you start a new fort in the same world. But that's a matter for another thread

Being able to buy good stuff would remove the necessity to have a master blacksmith and whatnot. I think that'd be enough to facilitate longer production times and other additional rebalancing effects

[SirHoneyBadger]

How is that more dull than grinding? Especially since that dwarf might bring back news from other parts of the world.

It would just be one less dwarf lounging around, anyway. It might be dull if that was your only dwarf, but this is Fortress mode we're talking about.

[Leartes]

I guess in the future there is a learning system beside cranking out low quality stuff planed. Like working assigning an apprentice to an experienced worker or enabling classes through guilds or stuff like that.

For now I think it should get much harder to gain experience and the learning rate should be linked to the personality traits. So that someone with positive arts traits learns the crafting professions faster and dwarfs with no understanding for art at all shouldnt be able to rise to the highest levels. If I remember correct there are also personality traits for feeling strong craves and urges etc. and I think those should correspond with the number of moods and creation of artifacts - with artifacts giving less experience of cause.
Now only a dwarf with the right traits could become legendary in a specific job and only by working really hard and creating possibly more than one artefact - or at least some better artefact than shoe with a sewn image of an elf in a fetal position.

[Starver]

Though I can see Masters sometimes being sent out to teach apprentices, much like they'd be sent into your hovel to teach harder skills to proficient. You could even see the Masters you yourself trained visit if you start a new fort in the same world. But that's a matter for another thread

Reminds me of the system in Colonisation[1].  Actually, the two systems.  Sending your 'rabble' untrained colonists of various kinds to Indian [/Native American] Villages and the in-settlement training partnership method.

Though I often wonder if there's a way to get more value out of the eternal Legendary Stonecrafters that I seem to get (at least one by mood, and often several through humouring their predelictions for the art and natural levelling-up.  Currently I put the glut of masterly/better rock crafts through the Trading/Offering process (second only to exotic clothing, looted from the corpses of raiders, that can't be worn by my Dwarves or melted down to raw materials).  And even then I end up with a stupidly cluttered workshop (or three) by year three and then by year six (assuming I've not neglected my fields and starved to death) I've got a Duke and Duchess telling me not to export adamantine items (no worries there!) and demanding adamantine doors ASAP (as if!).  But packing off an expert craftsdwarf back home in part exchange for someone (randomly skilled, but perhaps with an element of request, or complementary to whichever skills you already possess) and/or some appropriate Kudos might be in keeping with a non-isolationist inter-community spirit.

[1] Sorry, I know that it's "Colonization", but my anglocentric prediliction continously rebels against the 'zee' spelling.  Don't talk to me about Billions.