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[Shadowics]

After watching the degrinchinator I decided I wanted to make one for myself- only I wanted mine to be automatic, rather than having to mine out the ice every time.

Requirements:
 - Freezing environment. (seasonal or otherwise, my proof of concept was on a glacier)
 - Magma (finite, a magma pool is sufficient).
 - Water (finite, melting ice is sufficient).
 - Some wood. (for power to drive the pumps).

_No_ Magma safe materials required.

Side view:

Code: [Select]

Z +2 □□□□ □□□□
Z +1 □□□□M□□□□
Z  0 □□□□ >> □
Z -1 □□□□B<< □
Z -2 □ >> □□ □
Z -3 □ << □□□□
Z -4 □□□□M□□□□
Z -5 □□□□□□□□□

  = Open space
□ = Wall / Unmined Rock
M = Pump Magma in here
B = Bridge (optional)
> = Pump ->
< = Pump <-

The upper pump loop should have water in it. A small amount of seed water (at least 2 deep) can be frozen and thawed repeatedly to fill it up. The system will tend to generate water while running, and may overflow a small amount.

The lower pump loop should have 3 deep magma in it. Ideally, this can be done by tapping into a magma pipe at Z-5 and pumping magma into the Z-4 Channel. This pump can be manually driven, as it should only need to be run once to fill it up, then left off.

The pumps should be attached to some form of power (perpetual waterwheels, or windmills) via a gear assembly that can be toggled on and off, one for each level.


Default state: All off. Oh look, A seige is coming! Wait until they pour onto the bridge, then flip the level for the Z-1 Pumps. In one frame, the water is pulled from the Z-2 reservoir and douses the seige, which is shortly frozen into a solid block of ice, killing whatever was inside and sealing the rest of the seige outside. You can then turn the Z-1 Pumps back off. Now to reset it without exposing your dwarves... Pull the levers for the magma pumps on Z-2 and Z-3, this will cause the magma to flow in a loop, warming the bridge and melting the ice. Pull the lever for the Z0 pumps to drain away the water. Then shut off the magma pumps to cool the bridge, ready for the next wave of attackers. Since we don't have to wait for the delay on any bridges, this can all be done quickly.

I've build a pressure plate sequence to automate this process (not currently shown). One throw of a level to turn the system on, and it automatically freezes and melts repeatedly until shut off.

The Bridge (optional) is intended for ease of cleanup- Once the seige is finished, drain the water back into its reservoir, then pull the lever for the bridge. All the bodies, clothing, debris, etc, will be dropped straight down into the magma, burning away all the crap. Just pull the lever for the Z-3 Pumps to hold the magma, leaving nice, neat piles of iron weapons and armor on Z-4. (If you don't want it incinerated, you can just pump the magma out first before toggling the bridge. The main point is to allow the trap to be reset and cleaned without ever exposing your dwarves to harm.) Unfortunately, freezing ice currently squeezes all other items in the tile into an alternate dimension.


As a result of the bugs, this is currently not a practical defense. When they get fixed, I'll write up a new, more detailed explanation, and probably make a movie/map of it to show it off. Until then, just send me a pm if you have any questions.

EDIT: Updated diagram to v1.1. Added note about pressure plate automation, and current bugs.

[Jim Groovester]

You could try putting a tunnel of magma on z-0 to melt the ice floor from across the wall. I think that would work. I think.

So, if I understand this right, this just encases every thing in a big block of ice like the degrinchinator, and then you flip a few levers and then it all melts down.

Dwarven ingenuity at its finest.

More impressive, though, would be an ice tunnel that would repeatedly melt and freeze and remelt and refreeze ice as the goblins are walking down it. I think your design could be slightly modified to accomplish this, though goblins might have problems with pathing through a one tile wide hallway, so a two tile might be the way to go.

The slight modification I'm referring to is keeping both sets of pumps running during operation. What happens if you keep the bridge lowered and run both sets of pumps continuously?

Add another to the list of things I have to try in Dwarf Fortress.

[Shadowics]

You could try putting a tunnel of magma on z-0 to melt the ice floor from across the wall. I think that would work. I think.

Nope, unfortunately, it doesn't melt the ice floor through a wall. Just tried. Magma only seems to melt water if the two tiles are directly adjacent, and that can only happen (without making obsidian) is vertically with a floor in between.

So, if I understand this right, this just encases every thing in a big block of ice like the degrinchinator, and then you flip a few levers and then it all melts down.

Dwarven ingenuity at its finest.

Yes indeed.

More impressive, though, would be an ice tunnel that would repeatedly melt and freeze and remelt and refreeze ice as the goblins are walking down it. I think your design could be slightly modified to accomplish this, though goblins might have problems with pathing through a one tile wide hallway, so a two tile might be the way to go.

The slight modification I'm referring to is keeping both sets of pumps running during operation. What happens if you keep the bridge lowered and run both sets of pumps continuously?

That was, exactly, my original plan, which unfortunately failed due to the formation of the ice floor on top of the ice cubes, preventing the drain pumps from draining the melted water away.

[Jim Groovester]

You could try putting a tunnel of magma on z-0 to melt the ice floor from across the wall. I think that would work. I think.

Nope, unfortunately, it doesn't melt the ice floor through a wall. Just tried. Magma only seems to melt water if the two tiles are directly adjacent, and that can only happen vertically with a floor in between.

Maybe a magma tunnel on z+1 then? It shouldn't interfere with the freezing on z-1 because it would still be aboveground, and then maybe it will melt the ice floor on z-0.

[Fossaman]

I have a suggestion.

Water only freezes aboveground, right? So I'd suggest recessing the freezing-channel one or more z-levels underground. This allows you space for drainage off to the side, probably via fortifications and floodgates.

Another interesting variation of this would be to have the magma in place already, and remove it by dropping it down a z-level using a bridge or something when you want the freeze to take place. That would mean fine tuning the system to have 2-3 water spread in the freezing channel, though. Not impossible, just tricky.

[Shadowics]

You could try putting a tunnel of magma on z-0 to melt the ice floor from across the wall. I think that would work. I think.

Nope, unfortunately, it doesn't melt the ice floor through a wall. Just tried. Magma only seems to melt water if the two tiles are directly adjacent, and that can only happen vertically with a floor in between.

Maybe a magma tunnel on z+1 then? It shouldn't interfere with the freezing on z-1 because it would still be aboveground, and then maybe it will melt the ice floor on z-0.

Damn.

Despite making no sense at all, a magma tunnel on z+1 melts the ice floor on z0 while still allowing the ice to freeze on z-1. I guess I gave up on it too soon.

When both sets of pumps are running at the same time, the water doesn't stay on z-1 long enough for it to freeze before the z0 pumps drain it away. If I set up some repeaters to toggle the pumps just right, it really could be a fully automatic re-freezing trap with no dwarf intervention...

I have a suggestion.

Water only freezes aboveground, right? So I'd suggest recessing the freezing-channel one or more z-levels underground. This allows you space for drainage off to the side, probably via fortifications and floodgates.

The 'z0' on my actual map is under three layers on ice, I just focused the diagram on the important bits. The reason I don't drain it off, is because it's next to impossible to find a freezing map with magma and an unlimited source of water and an unlimited sink to drain it into. The system reuses the same water to run indefinitely.

Another interesting variation of this would be to have the magma in place already, and remove it by dropping it down a z-level using a bridge or something when you want the freeze to take place. That would mean fine tuning the system to have 2-3 water spread in the freezing channel, though. Not impossible, just tricky.

I considered a system like that using bridges, but the activation delay for bridges would slow down how fast it could toggle, not to mention waiting for the water to fill and spread out. The trap corridor would have to be enormous to keep invaders from getting in before it was ready to re-freeze.

[Jim Groovester]

Excellent.

You must make a video demonstrating its goblin freezing capabilities when it's finished.

[Shoku]

This would take a more complicated toggle but you can do a 3 wide hallway that can still be frozen with all the magma below it.

While running magma pumps lining the edges the water there won't freeze so it will travel to the middle lane to freeze there.
Switching off the magma pumps would then freeze the side lanes.

In order to thaw the middle lane you'd just use a different set of magma pumps to fill the reservoir. Getting it back out in a timely manner is also going to require some pumps but it shouldn't be too much of a problem.

*I'm not sure if it would be better to keep a row of wall running down the middle so there would be less total magma involved.

And all of this is fairly dependent on my thinking that glass pumps do not deconstruct if magma gets on the front tile...

[Hyndis]

You can also do this without using magma at all, simply by exploiting freezing air vs indoors air which is miraculously just the right temperature.

It does require to use water pressure from a resevoir however. You have a store of water a few Z levels higher. Then use downward stairs all along your entrance. The Z level below this walkway OF DOOM have up stairs. Water can flow freely over stairs. Water in that lower level will also never freeze.

Then have a lever that opens up the reservoir, flooding water down and with water pressure forcing water up, through the stairs, around the invaders. This water will then freeze solid encasing them in ice. To turn off the trap you just close that reservoir link again, which removes the water pressure and makes it safe to dig out the ice blocks.

I'll try to make a demonstration map of this trap this weekend, but my work time is sucking up almost all of my free time.

This trap basically uses water pressure in the exact same way that a toilet does. 

[Shadowics]

Excellent.

You must make a video demonstrating its goblin freezing capabilities when it's finished.

I'm looking forward to it, though I'll have to work out a control loop to toggle the bits...

And all of this is fairly dependent on my thinking that glass pumps do not deconstruct if magma gets on the front tile...

If anything that is not magma safe shares a tile with magma, it'll melt. I'll think about making a wider hallway feasible though.

Then have a lever that opens up the reservoir, flooding water down and with water pressure forcing water up, through the stairs, around the invaders. This water will then freeze solid encasing them in ice. To turn off the trap you just close that reservoir link again, which removes the water pressure and makes it safe to dig out the ice blocks.

That's an interesting idea, but what if the trap doesn't catch all the invaders for whatever reason? You send a miner in to mine it out, and the moment he breaches the end he gets slaughtered. The main point of my magma-sandwich was to melt the ice automatically so my dwarves can stay in bed and drink.

[Hyndis]

The ice toilet trap would of course have to have a guard post so that any one who sneaks buy will be instagibbed.

However if you catch most of the goblins in the trap (and you can make the trap as wide or as narrow as you want), those caught outside will flee, and then you can just mine through the ice in peace. The last block of ice will wall off the corridor of death and killing most of the goblins will break the siege.

[Shoku]

You can also do this without using magma at all, simply by exploiting freezing air vs indoors air which is miraculously just the right temperature.

It does require to use water pressure from a resevoir however. You have a store of water a few Z levels higher. Then use downward stairs all along your entrance. The Z level below this walkway OF DOOM have up stairs. Water can flow freely over stairs. Water in that lower level will also never freeze.

Then have a lever that opens up the reservoir, flooding water down and with water pressure forcing water up, through the stairs, around the invaders. This water will then freeze solid encasing them in ice. To turn off the trap you just close that reservoir link again, which removes the water pressure and makes it safe to dig out the ice blocks.

I'll try to make a demonstration map of this trap this weekend, but my work time is sucking up almost all of my free time.

This trap basically uses water pressure in the exact same way that a toilet does. 

We're trying to avoid any digging here. Preferably we wanna throw one lever and then have frosty doom obliterate the siege until they decide it's not worth it and those who had yet to enter flee cowering and covered in icy tears and mucus.

The lava a level above could make your setup do it's job the way OP wanted but stairs won't work for a trade entrance like I proposed.

Are you sure that the "outside" temp isn't transmitted through stairs though? I was pretty sure I freeze a tile of underground river whenever I stair straight down into them.

Now, if you dug out the lowest layer of ice and lined it with down stairs and had up stairs in the layer of rock below it this would definitely work without any "outside" tiles but I'm not sure what the reaction to melting the ice floors from above would give us.

[Vengeful Donut]

If I understand correctly, the water you're melting with magma is outdoors?

[Shoku]

If I understand correctly, the water you're melting with magma is outdoors?

That is exactly the idea, unless you have somewhere better for water to freeze when not in almost-contact with magma.

[pushy]

And all of this is fairly dependent on my thinking that glass pumps do not deconstruct if magma gets on the front tile...

If anything that is not magma safe shares a tile with magma, it'll melt. I'll think about making a wider hallway feasible though.

Except that it wouldn't... http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=27423.msg333562#msg333562