Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 ... 4 5 [6] 7 8 ... 13

Author Topic: Giant robots are a terrible idea so...  (Read 11886 times)

Il Palazzo

  • Bay Watcher
  • And lo, the Dude did abide. And it was good.
    • View Profile
Re: Giant robots are a terrible idea so...
« Reply #75 on: June 20, 2009, 12:17:39 pm »

...and then the giant, armoured robots enter the fray. Piloted by troubled/spunky japanese teenagers with male-to-female ratio of 1:10. It's almost inevitable.
Logged

Sean Mirrsen

  • Bay Watcher
  • Bearer of the Psionic Flame
    • View Profile
Re: Giant robots are a terrible idea so...
« Reply #76 on: June 20, 2009, 12:36:29 pm »

Actually, the specific "giant robot" design hinges on one key element - myomers. You can't make combat robots with just servos or hydraulics. Myomers will allow the mechs to have a technological edge over the tanks, since they would be the only ones benefitting from this technology.

Of course "Super Robots" are right out. The square-cube law will make them horribly slow, their legs will make up more than 70% of their weight, and may require separate power sources to operate. However, Real Robots - the well-known Battlemechs and various "oversized power armor" no more than two/three stories tall - may yet be entering service. The advantage of a mech is not in its toughness or firepower - but mobility and versatility. A tank is straightforward, its uses vary only with the ammunition it is supplied. An oversized mechanical infantryman, on the other hand, can be used for a lot of different things. It is also self-sufficient - a tank with a broken tread will not be able to move until its crew gets out and does something about it, but a mech, especially a mech with hands, can perform a little field repair on a jammed foot actuator without severely endangering the pilot. (it also won't lose movement ability because of a jammed foot actuator, or even a completely destroyed foot) And on the final subject, cost, one mech may well cost as much as four/five tanks, but it has a crew of one.
Logged
Multiworld Madness Archive:
Game One, Discontinued at World 3.
Game Two, Discontinued at World 1.

"Europe has to grow out of the mindset that Europe's problems are the world's problems, but the world's problems are not Europe's problems."
- Subrahmanyam Jaishankar, Minister of External Affairs, India

umiman

  • Bay Watcher
  • Voice Fetishist
    • View Profile
Re: Giant robots are a terrible idea so...
« Reply #77 on: June 20, 2009, 01:20:21 pm »

But if all it took was one plucky marine with a HEAT shell to down your mech, it's a bit of a waste.

Contrary to all those shows, I can't fathom why mechs have more armor than tanks. Doesn't make any sense.

Aqizzar

  • Bay Watcher
  • There is no 'U'.
    • View Profile
Re: Giant robots are a terrible idea so...
« Reply #78 on: June 20, 2009, 01:27:13 pm »

The advantage of a mech is not in its toughness or firepower - but mobility and versatility. A tank is straightforward, its uses vary only with the ammunition it is supplied. An oversized mechanical infantryman, on the other hand, can be used for a lot of different things.

You're forgetting the part where a multi-ton infantryman will sink into mud, pound through pavement, and be completely limited to fighting on ground floors.  And god help you if you fall in a basement.

It is also self-sufficient - a tank with a broken tread will not be able to move until its crew gets out and does something about it, but a mech, especially a mech with hands, can perform a little field repair on a jammed foot actuator without severely endangering the pilot.

What?  Unless those armored fingers are as small and deft as human ones, no pilot could ever perform self-repairs while wearing the thing.

(it also won't lose movement ability because of a jammed foot actuator, or even a completely destroyed foot)

How do you figure?  Without a working foot, the suit would be limited to dragging or hopping everywhere, neither conducive to combat effectiveness, especially in light of your already ridiculously thigh ground pressure now piled onto one foot instead of two.
Logged
And here is where my beef pops up like a looming awkward boner.
Please amplify your relaxed states.
Quote from: PTTG??
The ancients built these quote pyramids to forever store vast quantities of rage.

Gunner-Chan

  • Bay Watcher
  • << IT'S TIME >>
    • View Profile
Re: Giant robots are a terrible idea so...
« Reply #79 on: June 20, 2009, 01:28:46 pm »

Giant robots may never work in reality, but I can always dream...
Logged
Diamonds are combustable, because they are made of Carbon.

Dakk

  • Bay Watcher
  • BLARAGLGLGL!
    • View Profile
Re: Giant robots are a terrible idea so...
« Reply #80 on: June 20, 2009, 01:35:35 pm »

Hey, lets look at the good side of things, power suits are at least plausible!
Don't expect any chainswords though.
Logged
Code: [Select]
    ︠     ︡
 ノ          ﺍ
ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)  ┻━┻

Table flipping, singed style.

Strife26

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Giant robots are a terrible idea so...
« Reply #81 on: June 20, 2009, 01:38:44 pm »

I've never gotten the obsession with powered armor and melee attacks. In the modren world, you'll never get close enough to stab someone, and you can carry lots more armor on wheels or treads.

If melee was to become needed again, that means that armor must be outrageously overpowered.
Logged
Even the avatars expire eventually.

Leafsnail

  • Bay Watcher
  • A single snail can make a world go extinct.
    • View Profile
Re: Giant robots are a terrible idea so...
« Reply #82 on: June 20, 2009, 01:41:54 pm »

I've never gotten the obsession with powered armor and melee attacks. In the modren world, you'll never get close enough to stab someone, and you can carry lots more armor on wheels or treads.

If melee was to become needed again, that means that armor must be outrageously overpowered.
They are developing new and improved armour for the US to create "Super soldiers", but this armour is more likely to monitor the mental and physical states of the soldiers (wounded?  tired?  hurt?  confused?) and provide them with support and medical help than to be a Halo style bullet shield.  It could also let a commander know how all his units are doing, and which should do each task.
Logged

Aqizzar

  • Bay Watcher
  • There is no 'U'.
    • View Profile
Re: Giant robots are a terrible idea so...
« Reply #83 on: June 20, 2009, 01:47:21 pm »

The idea behind "powered armor" is that it lets the soldier carry more equipment quickly without getting tired.  The "armor" is just icing on the "powered" part.  But like I said, pretty much anything that totals over a thousand pounds packed onto a human-sized footprint is going to have serious mobility problems from ground pressure, not to mention inertia.
Logged
And here is where my beef pops up like a looming awkward boner.
Please amplify your relaxed states.
Quote from: PTTG??
The ancients built these quote pyramids to forever store vast quantities of rage.

Sean Mirrsen

  • Bay Watcher
  • Bearer of the Psionic Flame
    • View Profile
Re: Giant robots are a terrible idea so...
« Reply #84 on: June 20, 2009, 02:05:33 pm »

They don't necessarily have MORE armor. But they can have massive wedge-shaped armor in the center of their torso, right in front of the pilot - something the tanks cannot afford, with the need to shield multiple crewmen. (think Vulture, but with the pilot in the centerpiece rather than on top) With the main power source being right behind the pilot, there is little else that can be taken out with just one hit that would immediately cripple the mech. This is, of course, assuming a frontal assault. A side assault presents a different problem for a HEAT shell - the arms of the mech are likely to absorb the hit and the mech will suffer little actual damage.
You should also consider the myomers themselves. The material they are made of is likely to posess enormous tensile strength. A mesh of myomer fibers would thus provide additional protection from conventional armor-piercing weapons.

ninja edit: a multi-ton infantryman will, of course, sink into the ground, but it can be alleviated with a different foot design, and won't constitute a problem until the mech reaches a certain size. Twenty-five tons standing on a square meter of foot area would make 2.5 kilograms per square centimeter, with up to 25 kg/cm2 at maximum stride. Not all that much, I think. I could be wrong though.

The armored fingers might not be as small and nimble as human ones, but they do have the bonus of possible cameras on their tips, not to mention any built-in arc welders, hacksaws, and dispensable foam sealant.

With a damaged foot, a mech wouldn't run, but would be able to walk at a normal pace, like a human with his lower leg in a cast would. With a missing foot, it would limp quite a bit, but would not lose mobility so much as to be unable to get into cover. Don't forget, a robot feels no pain and does not bleed, so it wouldn't be affected by limb loss too much.
Logged
Multiworld Madness Archive:
Game One, Discontinued at World 3.
Game Two, Discontinued at World 1.

"Europe has to grow out of the mindset that Europe's problems are the world's problems, but the world's problems are not Europe's problems."
- Subrahmanyam Jaishankar, Minister of External Affairs, India

Cthulhu

  • Bay Watcher
  • A squid
    • View Profile
Re: Giant robots are a terrible idea so...
« Reply #85 on: June 20, 2009, 02:13:20 pm »

Why make it humanoid though?  A tankbot is more stable and has fewer obvious weak points.
Logged
Shoes...

Sean Mirrsen

  • Bay Watcher
  • Bearer of the Psionic Flame
    • View Profile
Re: Giant robots are a terrible idea so...
« Reply #86 on: June 20, 2009, 02:20:44 pm »

Because a tankbot has more flaws than a tank. You don't need to think much when you run and shoot, because that's what you can do by yourself. You don't regularly have treads/wheels replacing your lower torso, so that might present a problem. Also, what if you get turned over with the higher center of gravity?
Logged
Multiworld Madness Archive:
Game One, Discontinued at World 3.
Game Two, Discontinued at World 1.

"Europe has to grow out of the mindset that Europe's problems are the world's problems, but the world's problems are not Europe's problems."
- Subrahmanyam Jaishankar, Minister of External Affairs, India

Cthulhu

  • Bay Watcher
  • A squid
    • View Profile
Re: Giant robots are a terrible idea so...
« Reply #87 on: June 20, 2009, 02:25:11 pm »

You know, we've used tanks for almost a century now, and I don't know of anyone who's said "This is so unintuitive!  We need to give our tanks arms and legs!"
Logged
Shoes...

Luke_Prowler

  • Bay Watcher
  • Wait, how did I get back here?
    • View Profile
Re: Giant robots are a terrible idea so...
« Reply #88 on: June 20, 2009, 02:32:32 pm »

Why does everyone think that giant mechs are so powerful? Everyone knows that all you need is one man with a rocker launcher and a bandana to destory it.

besides, bipedal robots are impossible. There isn't a gyro powerful enough to keep it balanced. Quadruped, on the otherhand, are very possible.
Logged

Quote from: ProtonJon
And that's why Communism doesn't work. There's always Chance Time

Sean Mirrsen

  • Bay Watcher
  • Bearer of the Psionic Flame
    • View Profile
Re: Giant robots are a terrible idea so...
« Reply #89 on: June 20, 2009, 02:36:41 pm »

Yes, because tanks are piloted by a crew of four/three. Every man does a familiar action - the driver drives, the turret gunners aim, shoot, and reload. The reason one man can't do everything is because it's unintuitive, or would require prohibitively large amounts of money to automate. With a humanoid robot, a single pilot can control everything as well as he controls his own body - the only problem is getting balance feedback to the operator. BT solved this with a neurohelmet.

ninja edit: "giant" is a comparative term. A robot the size of a tank is not "giant", but is still a giant robot. Take a tank, carve it up and arrange it into the shape of a robot - you'll likely get something about 5 or 6 meters high, 4 meters wide, and about 2-3 meters thick. That's as large as a robot needs to be, I think. On par with BT light mechs.

And the pilot himself provides balancing, no need for a super-powerful gyro. It's still needed for basic balancing, but most of the really complex stuff is handled by the pilot's brain.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2009, 02:39:24 pm by Sean Mirrsen »
Logged
Multiworld Madness Archive:
Game One, Discontinued at World 3.
Game Two, Discontinued at World 1.

"Europe has to grow out of the mindset that Europe's problems are the world's problems, but the world's problems are not Europe's problems."
- Subrahmanyam Jaishankar, Minister of External Affairs, India
Pages: 1 ... 4 5 [6] 7 8 ... 13