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[M Shadowy]

Where to begin?

For quite some time, I have rather wanted to gen a world swarming with goblins, orcs, and other minions of darkness, but the humans never let them have a chance.  There does not appear to be anything related to this in the search engine (which I've been using intermittently while typing this), so I suppose I'm the first to be annoyed enough by this.

Basically, while I don't want to diminish their individual effectiveness, I'm growing rather irritated with humans conquering well... everything.  In every world I've generated, the human nations start ~90% of the wars, with the remaining 10% being some other race attacking the poor, hapless goblins who always, always get the crap kicked out of them.  Being on the offensive is basically an auto win during world gen; the defenders numbers are inevitably inferior to the attackers, who will never stop attacking until they win.  Which they will, invariably, as eternally being on the defensive means that the victim civ will simply be attrited into oblivion eventually.  Peace treaties, in theory, might give a victim civ breathing room, but they may as well not exist, seeing as they typically last all of five minutes before the attacker thinks up a new excuse and start fighting again.

I suppose I wouldn't mind the humans always starting wars if the nation they were fighting would actually counterattack, but they never do - they always just sit there and let the humans wreck their shit.  Unless they're constrained by geography, human nations inevitably cover a disproportionate amount of the world, pushing elves, goblins, and custom races to the sidelines if not outright annihilating them; all of the above are only safe from humans if they're sufficiently isolated.  They also seem to constrain dwarven expansion simply by devouring the population cap.  I've tried giving the others just as much reason to attack the humans as the humans have to attack them, but they never do; indeed the only people I've had attack humans (and then only very rarely) are other humans.  I've also tried giving the human kingdoms relatively small population caps compared to everyone else, but this appears to be equally useless - they still destroy everyone and everything that so much as mildly annoys them.

It goes without saying that I find this rather annoying.  Anyone have any ideas (or links if I've missed prior threads) how to keep world gen wars from being dominated by a single race?

[Kashyyk]

You could nerf the humans, buff the other races or try to aline their ethics with the other races. This will make them less likely to declare war on said race.
You could also give the other races [DRAGONFIREBREATH] but remember to remove beofre starting a fortress.

[Mephansteras]

From what I've seen, Plains-dwelling races are always the most powerful forces in the game. They just have more room to spread out. So, best suggestion I can give is to allow other races to start in the plains and scrublands. Basically give your Orcs, Goblins, and whatnot the same starting biomes the humans have PLUS their usual ones. That should help things quite a bit.

[Sensei]

Remember, if you nerf or buff, THEN worldgen, THEN set them back to normal, it will only skew their power during worldgen.

[M Shadowy]

From what I've seen, Plains-dwelling races are always the most powerful forces in the game. They just have more room to spread out. So, best suggestion I can give is to allow other races to start in the plains and scrublands. Basically give your Orcs, Goblins, and whatnot the same starting biomes the humans have PLUS their usual ones. That should help things quite a bit.

.

Thanks Meph, that may be the best solution to this little problem of mine, though hopefully the Army Arc will add more interesting world gen wars in any case.  I've given it a shot with the Orc mod, which seems to have worked charmingly well; at the very least it led to the longest hot war I've ever seen in world gen.  Two of them, actually, both targeting the Orcs, and both of which started around 106 and proceeded unabated until the end of World Gen in 885 without concluding.

You could nerf the humans, buff the other races or try to aline their ethics with the other races. This will make them less likely to declare war on said race.
You could also give the other races [DRAGONFIREBREATH] but remember to remove beofre starting a fortress.

Remember, if you nerf or buff, THEN worldgen, THEN set them back to normal, it will only skew their power during worldgen.

Definitely worth remembering, thanks.

[ac31]

i think you could better modify this in worldgen, to my knowledge humans, elves, and dwarves only settle in neutral areas or better, whats more, if you increase the amount of mountains then there will be more goblin/orc only habitats

check the worldgen cookbook

[Deimos56]

i think you could better modify this in worldgen, to my knowledge humans, elves, and dwarves only settle in neutral areas or better, whats more, if you increase the amount of mountains then there will be more goblin/orc only habitats

check the worldgen cookbook

From what I've seen (All my evil regions end up in swamps), it often means more dwarven lands too.

[Rhenaya]

make humans like elves to use only wooden weapons in world gen... their power comes from the fact they are size 7 and use iron (100% strength) elves are size 7 but damblock -1 and only wooden stuff (50% strength) dwarfs are size 6 but use steel (133% strength), but mot likely not on war with humans so they dont spread out as much as mountains are not that common as grassland.

[TheNewerMartianEmperor]

You know that you can get rid of the population cap.

[Shoku]

Does making them children until they are 30 have any effect?

[AtomicPaperclip]

Probably, I made a new race that was a child for 1 year and had litters of 1:3 and as soon as a tower started they bred like bunnies until it reached the cap of 200, in several years

[Grimlocke]

From what I've seen (All my evil regions end up in swamps), it often means more dwarven lands too.

You need to make more evil in large sub regions, and less in the small ones. Humans, elves and dwarfs will settle in the small neutral or good areas, but will be unable to expand into the larger evil areas. This takes some finetuning of the wolrdgen params, specifically the mesh parameters, so that you dont get only large or only small areas.

[Shoku]

From what I've seen (All my evil regions end up in swamps), it often means more dwarven lands too.

You need to make more evil in large sub regions, and less in the small ones. Humans, elves and dwarfs will settle in the small neutral or good areas, but will be unable to expand into the larger evil areas. This takes some finetuning of the wolrdgen params, specifically the mesh parameters, so that you dont get only large or only small areas.

I've never come across any kind of guide for how to manipulate mesh values...

[Grimlocke]

I've never come across any kind of guide for how to manipulate mesh values...

Not? well, they arnt so complicated.

You have to set the mesh size to something other then 'ignore' for the worldgen to use the mesh. The other 5 numbers are weight values, they represent a certain range of values for whatever mesh you are editing. Each weight value covers 20 percent of you what between you minimum and maximum value, higher weights produce more of their range of values then lower weights.

For example, I can set minumum elevation and maximun elevation to 1 and 400 respectivelly. Then set the mesh size of elevation to its maximun, then set the weight values of 0-20, 20-40, 40-60, 60-80, 80-100 to 1, 4, 4, 4, 1 respectivelly. This way, the world generator will generate a world with a lot a medium elevations, and only a few high mountains and oceans. The same thing can be done with temprature, drainage, rainfall, etc.

A higher mesh size simply means that more weight values will be generated, thus giving you more variation. It does not override normal variation values. This is why setting mesh values to 1, 0, 0, 0, 1 wont just produce the highest and lowest values.

Heres an example:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

[WORLD_GEN]
[TITLE:Fiery Deathly 257x257]
[DIM:257:257]
[END_YEAR:500]
[BEAST_END_YEAR:150:-1]
[REVEAL_ALL_HISTORY:1]
[CULL_HISTORICAL_FIGURES:1]
[ELEVATION:1:400:1400:1600]
[RAINFALL:0:100:400:400]
[TEMPERATURE:-40:120:200:10]
[DRAINAGE:0:100:200:200]
[VOLCANISM:50:100:1600:1600]
[SAVAGERY:3:100:1600:1600]
[ELEVATION_FREQUENCY:6:10:0:0:20:8]
[RAIN_FREQUENCY:5:10:0:0:0:5]
[DRAINAGE_FREQUENCY:5:8:4:0:0:1]
[TEMPERATURE_FREQUENCY:4:3:0:2:0:1]
[SAVAGERY_FREQUENCY:6:1:2:4:8:16]
[VOLCANISM_FREQUENCY:6:1:0:0:0:40]
[GOOD_SQ_COUNTS:6000:18000:0]
[EVIL_SQ_COUNTS:500:1000:24000]
[PEAK_NUMBER_MIN:80]
[OCEAN_EDGE_MIN:0]
[VOLCANO_MIN:200]
[REGION_COUNTS:SWAMP:0:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:DESERT:0:2:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:FOREST:0:2:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:MOUNTAINS:0:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:OCEAN:0:8:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:GLACIER:0:2:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:TUNDRA:0:2:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:GRASSLAND:0:1:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:HILLS:0:1:0]
[EROSION_CYCLE_COUNT:20]
[RIVER_MINS:400:400]
[PERIODICALLY_ERODE_EXTREMES:0]
[OROGRAPHIC_PRECIPITATION:1]
[SUBREGION_MAX:5000]
[CAVE_MIN_SIZE:24]
[CAVE_MAX_SIZE:48]
[MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:200]
[NON_MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:200]
[ALL_CAVES_VISIBLE:1]
[SHOW_EMBARK_RIVER:2]
[SHOW_EMBARK_POOL:2]
[SHOW_EMBARK_M_POOL:2]
[SHOW_EMBARK_M_PIPE:2]
[SHOW_EMBARK_CHASM:2]
[SHOW_EMBARK_PIT:2]
[SHOW_EMBARK_OTHER:2]
[SHOW_EMBARK_TUNNEL:2]
[TOTAL_CIV_NUMBER:100]
[TOTAL_CIV_POPULATION:-1]
[PLAYABLE_CIVILIZATION_REQUIRED:1]
[ELEVATION_RANGES:0:0:0]
[RAIN_RANGES:0:0:0]
[DRAINAGE_RANGES:0:0:0]
[SAVAGERY_RANGES:0:0:0]
[VOLCANISM_RANGES:0:0:0]

Isnt something like this on the wiki allready?

[Shoku]

What do you mean by higher mesh sizes making more weight values?

Something like 50,1,1,1,100 doesn't seem to even skew things towards the high and low values for me (using small mesh.)