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[HexagonalBolts]

Inevitably this has been suggested many many times before, but I can't find the answer myself - why is Dwarf Fortress still an obscure, free, indie game developed mostly by one man through donations?

It's by far the greatest game I have ever played, it has far more depth and customisation than any other game I have ever played, and it has a dedicated player community - but I think by still being an obscure, free, one-man indie game, progress in these areas of excellence is actually hindered rather than benefited.

By going commercial, perhaps as a small indie studio, the game could be far better developed and made far more accessible (I don't mean 'dumbed down'). Although the ASCII art contributes to the quirkiness and the 'hardcore' appeal of the game, and it was perhaps the only CPU-unintensive graphics option available with only one man working on the game, I don't think it the feature itself actually makes the game any better or more fun - a graphic isometric view would be a much better means of communicating information and infinitely more accessible for new players.

Surely a small indie game development studio could be set up that wouldn't ruin the 'indie developer ethos' that I presume prevents ToadyOne from going commercial, but would allow massive progress in the development of Dwarf Fortress? It's not as if the game is not universally adored by the games journalists and does not have a large following.

[varkarrus]

The graphics. Most of the idiot population of america/canada hate/don't understand ASCII graphics.

[kalida99]

From what i've read Toady wants to work alone for the most part and from what i've read turns down any offer for help, and as for the release, well idiotic people today its all about the graphics, and the steep learning curve doesnt help...

[Mephansteras]

Also, you have to keep in mind that this game is in Alpha. It's not even close to finished. So there isn't any reason for Toady to try to push the game out to a wider audience at this time. It'll take years before it's in a polished and sellable state. Until then, Toady is perfectly happy with how things are. It lets him develop the game on his schedule while allowing those of us who can get into the game to enjoy it and provide feedback.

Eventually, everything will get polished up. There are people working out how to do various types of interfaces (3d, isometric, whatever). Eventually, Toady might incorporate those ideas into the final game. However, with all the drastic changes happening to the game in the years to come he's quite reasonably decided to hold off on the presentation of the game until he's done breaking major parts of the system every few releases.

[Scarpa]

I think it's a matter of 'too many cooks spoil the food' or something along those lines.

Don't underestimate how fast things can go off the rails when money, more people, external pressures, etc are involved. I'm personally thrilled that there is a game out there with an uncompromising development focus. When you start talking about accessibility, etc you're essentially creating multiple competing goals and as far as I know the only goal Toady has is the make his own personal perfect game. That is happens to be a game that I find completely awesome is just a bonus.

[HexagonalBolts]

Also, you have to keep in mind that this game is in Alpha. It's not even close to finished. So there isn't any reason for Toady to try to push the game out to a wider audience at this time. It'll take years before it's in a polished and sellable state. Until then, Toady is perfectly happy with how things are. It lets him develop the game on his schedule while allowing those of us who can get into the game to enjoy it and provide feedback.

Eventually, everything will get polished up. There are people working out how to do various types of interfaces (3d, isometric, whatever). Eventually, Toady might incorporate those ideas into the final game. However, with all the drastic changes happening to the game in the years to come he's quite reasonably decided to hold off on the presentation of the game until he's done breaking major parts of the system every few releases.

But even in it's alpha the game is hugely successful, surely toady could already attain some funding and massively increase development speed by running a small team?

[cerapa]

I quite like the current situation.

Keeps away all the people who prefer graphics over gameplay and I think the reason why this is good is because its made by 1 person. Different people would do different stuff with different styles. This way everything works together, not feel like a lot of stuff just put together like a collection of minigames.

[HexagonalBolts]

I think it's a matter of 'too many cooks spoil the food' or something along those lines.

Don't underestimate how fast things can go off the rails when money, more people, external pressures, etc are involved. I'm personally thrilled that there is a game out there with an uncompromising development focus. When you start talking about accessibility, etc you're essentially creating multiple competing goals and as far as I know the only goal Toady has is the make his own personal perfect game. That is happens to be a game that I find completely awesome is just a bonus.

I think I read in one of the development updates that it was a goal to make the game more accessible though? and making more accessible doesn't mean dumbing down the game by any means - merely introducing a custom screen size, tooltips, and the use of a mouse would make the game much more user friendly

[HexagonalBolts]

I quite like the current situation.

Keeps away all the people who prefer graphics over gameplay and I think the reason why this is good is because its made by 1 person. Different people would do different stuff with different styles. This way everything works together, not feel like a lot of stuff just put together like a collection of minigames.

Keeping away the graphics kids is certainly a good point, but even a clunky isometric view isn't going to be drawing in too many morons

But, although I understand where you're coming from, I don't think I entirely agree with what you say about several developers turning a game into a series of minigames... I mean, I can't think of any commercially developed real-time strategies which feel like a series of minigames...?

[dornbeast]

surely toady could already attain some funding and massively increase development speed by running a small team?

Does Toady have the skills to run a small team?  If he doesn't, creating a small team could actually slow development speed, dilute his influence on the game, and degrade quality.  And finding somebody who can run the team isn't easy.

I think that Toady is at least a Proficient programmer.  I don't have any evidence that he has any training as an administrator.  (I don't have any evidence that he doesn't have it, either.)

[Vilien]

Because Toady doesn't want it to suck.

[Tigershark13]

hmm DF is an awesome game, and at times the lack of the update can be somewhat depressing, however (i've been quietly playing DF on and off since the old 2D days... just not been too forum active) each new update has astounded me, and made the long waits well worth it, so to be honest I like it as it is... the game may take a while to get moving, but its still better than almost every 'finished' game i've played (I may make an exception for dungeon keeper 1 and 2, for now anyway)

[Blacken]

Also, you have to keep in mind that this game is in Alpha. It's not even close to finished. So there isn't any reason for Toady to try to push the game out to a wider audience at this time. It'll take years before it's in a polished and sellable state. Until then, Toady is perfectly happy with how things are. It lets him develop the game on his schedule while allowing those of us who can get into the game to enjoy it and provide feedback.

Eventually, everything will get polished up. There are people working out how to do various types of interfaces (3d, isometric, whatever). Eventually, Toady might incorporate those ideas into the final game. However, with all the drastic changes happening to the game in the years to come he's quite reasonably decided to hold off on the presentation of the game until he's done breaking major parts of the system every few releases.

But even in it's alpha the game is hugely successful, surely toady could already attain some funding and massively increase development speed by running a small team?

What, in anything Toady has ever said or done, makes you think that he wants to do that?

[DgnBiscuit]

Also, you have to keep in mind that this game is in Alpha. It's not even close to finished. So there isn't any reason for Toady to try to push the game out to a wider audience at this time. It'll take years before it's in a polished and sellable state. Until then, Toady is perfectly happy with how things are. It lets him develop the game on his schedule while allowing those of us who can get into the game to enjoy it and provide feedback.

Eventually, everything will get polished up. There are people working out how to do various types of interfaces (3d, isometric, whatever). Eventually, Toady might incorporate those ideas into the final game. However, with all the drastic changes happening to the game in the years to come he's quite reasonably decided to hold off on the presentation of the game until he's done breaking major parts of the system every few releases.

But even in it's alpha the game is hugely successful, surely toady could already attain some funding and massively increase development speed by running a small team?

Speaking as someone who works for a (independent) video game company the problem itself is funding. Not lack thereof, but the fact that anybody who'd put money in in a corporate sense would want some part of the development action. The minute you start taking funding it's no longer your project, period. What they call it when you put money in without any expectations of getting to at least partially control development is "donations", which, as already stated, has been set up. And in all honesty small development teams aren't that much better than a single person unless there are a number of areas that can be worked on concurrently without messing up someone else. Since DF development is almost wholly centred around gameplay and rules development the optimal size of the team is 1.

So, in a sense, the answer to your initial question is: DF is being properly developed, having a big company swoop in would just destroy the game (more than likely by investors who want something prettier than ASCII art to show off at E3 and who don't care about gameplay, which is every investor).

-DB.

[Gergination]

There's a reason he hasn't polished the presentation.  He keeps adding new stuff or breaking old ones.  Keeping the interface and that as simple as possible means he doesn't have to hesitate when he wants to add a new feature.  It allows for quick experimentation of features because he doesn't have to gussy up anything.

Just chill out, donate, and let the man do his work.  I applaud his dedication to this project (it's more than just a project to him) and eagerly await each new release while enjoying the current one.