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[jeremiah22]

This thread made me register, etc.

I was talking online with someone about DF, and we were discussing the graphical aspects of the game. And eventually, we came to the agreement that the ASCII is what makes DF great. Not because of the 'hardcore' idea, or the idea that it forces away casual gamers, but for the reason that without ASCII, and a more 'traditional' engine in place instead, then there would be no imagination left. From what I've read on the forums, people are really imaging what their forts are like, rather than relying on the graphics to show them. ASCII allows you to make up your own story.

[Gergination]

Even the graphic sets allow you to imagine things in your mind.  Hell even 3D dwarf leaves so much to your mind.

[Peewee]

You have no idea how long I just spent looking for this joke.

A manager went to a master programmer and showed him the requirements document for a new application. The manager asked the master, "How long will it take to design this system if I assign five programmers to it?"
"It will take one year," said the master promptly.
"But we need this system immediately if not sooner! How long will it take if I assign ten programmers to it?"
The master programmer frowned. "In that case, it will take two years."
"And what if I assign a hundred programmers to it?"
The master programmer shrugged. "Then the design will never be completed," he said.

[Fossaman]

Let the man code his Mona Lisa. I doubt the speed of production or the quality of the game would improve much with additional programmers.

Also:

custom screen size, tooltips, and the use of a mouse

Custom screen size is in already, and you can designate with the mouse.

[Peewee]

custom screen size, tooltips, and the use of a mouse

Custom screen size is in already, and you can designate with the mouse.

Not quite yet... that's coming in d12/13, and the earlier d12 release is unusably buggy. >.>

[Efun]

This thread made me register, etc.

I was talking online with someone about DF, and we were discussing the graphical aspects of the game. And eventually, we came to the agreement that the ASCII is what makes DF great. Not because of the 'hardcore' idea, or the idea that it forces away casual gamers, but for the reason that without ASCII, and a more 'traditional' engine in place instead, then there would be no imagination left. From what I've read on the forums, people are really imaging what their forts are like, rather than relying on the graphics to show them. ASCII allows you to make up your own story.

With ASCII you dont see every swing of the axe of every movement of the kobold running for his life after he grabbed the bone earing, It lets the player make up the story and imagine the events in a fantastic and great way that is only challenged, in my opinion, by D&D.

In short, yes I agree, ASCII is good for the imaginative person!

[Zangi]

Inevitably this has been suggested many many times before, but I can't find the answer myself - why is Dwarf Fortress still an obscure, free, indie game developed mostly by one man through donations?

It's by far the greatest game I have ever played, it has far more depth and customisation than any other game I have ever played, and it has a dedicated player community - but I think by still being an obscure, free, one-man indie game, progress in these areas of excellence is actually hindered rather than benefited.

By going commercial, perhaps as a small indie studio, the game could be far better developed and made far more accessible (I don't mean 'dumbed down'). Although the ASCII art contributes to the quirkiness and the 'hardcore' appeal of the game, and it was perhaps the only CPU-unintensive graphics option available with only one man working on the game, I don't think it the feature itself actually makes the game any better or more fun - a graphic isometric view would be a much better means of communicating information and infinitely more accessible for new players.

Surely a small indie game development studio could be set up that wouldn't ruin the 'indie developer ethos' that I presume prevents ToadyOne from going commercial, but would allow massive progress in the development of Dwarf Fortress? It's not as if the game is not universally adored by the games journalists and does not have a large following.

Let the man work as he feels like working.  Its all for the better.  It is his dream game.  It is his work.  Adding anyone else to the team would mean these people would bring in their own ideas.  Which in most cases... will eventually result in conflict.  Rarely do you find like minded people on ideas and concepts...

Same with some 'investor' who is officially... investing money.  The bastard would want a return in monies.  Which means the investor would try to give him deadlines and want to sell it to everyone... which means 'fixing' much of what makes DF 'fun'... and graphics.

This game will keep on spreading by word of mouth.  It has done so for the last few years.  It will survive... it will grow.

[Humberticus]

A camel is a horse made by committee. Just saying.

[Mr Tk]

The Mona Lisa is a good example actually.

Da Vinci went painting on commission but the Mona Lisa was his pet painting. According to records he often carried it around with him were ever he went and recent studies and scans have shown that many parts where often reworked, repainted.

Can you imagination then the Mona Lisa if had been a commission instead?

Also I find your title interesting when you say not developed properly. Was Braid not developed properly because it had only one person working on it? (And yes I know that David Hellman did the art on Braid, not Jonathan Blow, but I can image that Toady is not going to be drawing his own art either.)

[Skorpion]

Inevitably this has been suggested many many times before, but I can't find the answer myself - why is Dwarf Fortress still an obscure, free, indie game developed mostly by one man through donations?

Because:
Toady believes in free games.
Toady has a vision, and is doing it the way he wants to. He has, essentially, gone fey.

And, frankly, would YOU shell out $10 for a game that looks like crap, has a learning curve like a brick wall, that demands you actually LISTENED in Geograpy lessons, and is so bewilderingly confusing you need to constantly check the wiki AND the forum just to make sense of what you're seeing?
(Because, let's face it, this game is horrendous to beginners.)

I sure as hell wouldn't. But it's free to pick up, so I figured I'd give it a shot. And, after giving up, putting it down for a few months, then coming back and having a good crack at it, I fell in love with it. I would pay full retail for it. And I intend to donate that much, as soon as I can actually afford to.
And if it ever does come out as a non-free retail game, I'd buy it, if only for the goddamn manual.

[Eagle]

I think that the only thing that Toady could possibly let outsiders work on, without ruining DF, is the music. And then, it would only be forum volunteers, like in this thread: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=37469.0

The reason i think that Toady could let an outsider work on the music, is that it's not integrated into, say, graphics or combat mechanics or whatever. If he considers the music worth using, its a simple matter to start playing the music when something occurs, such as a siege.

if (siegeActive == true)
{
     playMusic.invasion();
}
else
{
     playMusic.standard();
}

[AtomicPaperclip]

Because Toady doesn't want it to suck.

Well put.

I'd certainly pay for this money now, but not before being completely addicted to it.

[SimRobert2001]

I just came in here to say that even though this is toady's dream, and getting outside investment is a VERY bad idea. anyone who invests in a project, expects a return. To safeguard this return, they will extert control over a project. Therefore, it will no longer be toady's project. Other people have said this, but i'm going to reinterate it.

In addition, you're often under contract. Toady must meet certain expectations, or face massive fines. He might even loose the project entirely.

[Opirian]

Inevitably this has been suggested many many times before, but I can't find the answer myself - why is Dwarf Fortress still an obscure, free, indie game developed mostly by one man through donations?

Because:
Toady believes in free games.
Toady has a vision, and is doing it the way he wants to. He has, essentially, gone fey.

And, frankly, would YOU shell out $10 for a game that looks like crap, has a learning curve like a brick wall, that demands you actually LISTENED in Geograpy lessons, and is so bewilderingly confusing you need to constantly check the wiki AND the forum just to make sense of what you're seeing?
(Because, let's face it, this game is horrendous to beginners.)

I sure as hell wouldn't. But it's free to pick up, so I figured I'd give it a shot. And, after giving up, putting it down for a few months, then coming back and having a good crack at it, I fell in love with it. I would pay full retail for it. And I intend to donate that much, as soon as I can actually afford to.
And if it ever does come out as a non-free retail game, I'd buy it, if only for the goddamn manual.

Oh dear Armok, how big would that thing be.

I do like the comparison to the mona lisa

But simply put the man has decided to go at it alone, the core is his. The mods belong to their respective owners.
Each works alone (ok maybe a small group here or there I don't know) and adds their own flavor, their own experience, their own brand of fun.

[Sabre_Justice]

I don't think a sane investor would touch this game with a ten-foot adamantine pole that menaces with spikes of adamantine. It's still in alpha, uses graphics considered outdated ten years ago, as said above has a brick wall learning curve and is already widely available for free.

Though if Toady One wants or needs to make money from developing a commercial game, he could probably use Dwarf Fortress as more of a showcase of his skills and knowledge, and maybe take some of the lessons from it to use in something else.