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[LegoLord]

Which is why it should have to have above a certain ammount of enemies-like a actual ARMY-nearby in order to trigger.

Which was exactly what was suggested.  People act like it will just be a a copy&paste of martial trances, which is very different than what is suggested.  In addition, the OP mentioned a requirement of depression in the dwarf.

[Leafsnail]

Sounds pretty awesome.  I'd suggest something close to full ranged attack resistance during such a mode (to avoid him just being shot anyway).  A martial trance apparently is great for everything (attack, defence, pain resistance) except for damage increase (enraged does that) but it isn't really epic (and dwarfs only tend to get it when about to die.  A beserk dwarf of mine got it while fighting war dogs.  It didn't help him much).

Anyway, maybe after such a transformation the dwarf is left drained, tired, and needs to sleep it off for a while?

[Neonivek]

Tantrums don't end with the dwarf's death . . . that's berserk madness.

Tantrums come in two flavors that I am aware of: Going Berserk and Melloncally (Heh spelled incorrectly)

Though there is a Martial Trance Berzerk as well.

[Byakugan01]

Enraged merely grants some bonuses...usually to no effect. And *anything* can go berserk in combat, even hoary marmots. There is no real combat analog to the berserk state.

[Neonivek]

Well then lets just seperate what is Fluff and what is not from the original post.

"his lower jaw struck the upper a lion-killing blow"

There you go.

How is that not a different form of Berzerk other then the conditions?

Please forum your starting to heed too much to fluff text.

"Enraged merely grants some bonuses"

So does Warp Spasm. It just has a ton of Fluff ontop of it.

Though if we applied reality Warp spasms would be somewhat uninteresting. (Basically that guy is high on drugs. Likely Cocane)

[LegoLord]

Tantrums don't end with the dwarf's death . . . that's berserk madness.

Tantrums come in two flavors that I am aware of: Going Berserk and Melloncally (Heh spelled incorrectly)

Though there is a Martial Trance Berzerk as well.

Those aren't tantrums.  Tantrums are when a dwarf starts blinking with a yellow exclamation, throws stuff, maybe fights a dwarf, and then goes back to normal, with some happy thoughts from throwing things and starting a fist fight.  Caused by mild depression.

"Berserk" means the dwarf becomes hostile, will be represented by an @ sign, will flash with a red exclamation mark, and will never go back to normal, so the only solution is to kill it.  It is caused by extreme depression or failing to make an artifact.  There is no disfigurement as described in the warp spasm.

"Melancholy" means it will wander around, doing nothing, not eating nor drinking, until it drowns itself, kills itself from falling off a cliff, or dying of thirst or hunger, which cannot be prevented; the dwarf is doomed, like with berserk dwarves.  It will flash a blue exclamation mark.  Caused by extreme depression or failing an artifact.

"Enraged," the dwarf will flash a dark read exclamation mark.  I'm not too certain about cause or effects of it, but the dwarf will come out of it.

"Martial Trance" means the dwarf will flash green and will charge enemies more willingly and ignore pain.  The dwarf will come out of it.  It is caused by being outnumbered by an opponent.  Again, no disfigurement.

"Stark raving mad" means the dwarf will flash a light blue exclamation mark.  The dwarf will slowly remove all its clothes over a time in which it will neither eat nor drink.  This ends only when the dwarf dies by any causes that might happen to melancholy dwarves.

There are only three among those that are irreversible statuses; berserk, stark raving mad, and melancholy.  The others are reversible and non-harmful towards the dwarf (with the exception of the tantrum, in the event that the hammerer can reach the dwarf and the tantrumer actually did damage).

Creatures don't go berserk in combat; they either become enraged or go into a martial trance.

Finally, warp spasms wouldn't grant some benifits . . . they'd grant a hell of a lot.  Enough to take out large armies - and that would be after champions are nerfed.  They'd also only be triggered when a dwarf is A) surrounded by huge armies, and B) when the dwarf is depressed.  You act like there is no way for Toady to prevent them from happening to hoary moarmots when a single unarmed dwarf shows up, which is quite obviously false.  The code does not control what Toady does; Toady controls the code.

[Neonivek]

Once again LegoLord your being drawn in by the Fluff

Warp Spasm (ignoring the fact that in reality that person is drugged out or dying from Adrenal overload) is Enraged+

You act like there is no way for Toady to prevent them from happening to hoary moarmots when a single unarmed dwarf shows up, which is quite obviously false.

No I am just saying that ultimately this suggestion isn't actually adding a whole lot to what we already have and that people are starting to be drawn in by the fluff text surrounding it.

Just up the stats up a bunch and Enraged is the same. (Martial Trance is the same)

It shouldn't recieve a Tantrum system because that isn't supposed to be beneficial.

It should go into perhaps a Category called: "Battle States" where Martial Stance and Enraged go. (Also don't underestimate Enraged. It can turn a Goblin into a killing machine)

[LegoLord]

Warp Spasm (ignoring the fact that in reality that person is drugged out or dying from Adrenal overload) is Enraged+

This is based on old myths, not reality.  How would you know?  You're just looking at what would cause that in real life;  this is a game, magic things happen.  Now think of a good reason why this shouldn't go in, because I'm not seeing any good ones.  By your logic, we shouldn't even have any trances or insanities; dwarves that fail a mood should just drop dead right then and there.

[Byakugan01]

Warp Spasm (ignoring the fact that in reality that person is drugged out or dying from Adrenal overload) is Enraged+

This is based on old myths, not reality.  How would you know?  You're just looking at what would cause that in real life;  this is a game, magic things happen.  Now think of a good reason why this shouldn't go in, because I'm not seeing any good ones.  By your logic, we shouldn't even have any trances or insanities; dwarves that fail a mood should just drop dead right then and there.

Well, not quite that far...but I think he's saying it should just go into the BATTLE states. His objection seems to me the idea of giving it what you get from a tantrum. However, just like the difference between tantrumming and berseking is vast, the difference between normal battle states and warp spasms should be of a similar magnitude.

[LegoLord]

However, just like the difference between tantrumming and berseking is vast, the difference between normal battle states and warp spasms should be of a similar magnitude.

That's exactly what's being proposed, yet he is arguing that there will be very little difference and that it shouldn't go in at all.

[Neonivek]

No Byakugan is pretty correct in what I am speaking about. Though I do question how much power the Warp Spasms should REALLY be giving. I'd personally would think it should give the strength of Enraged/Stance with the "No Pain" and "No Exhaust" tag temporarily at most. That way anyone with skill would be capable of taking out armies by virtue of not tiring.

The major problem with giving it too much power is that it is pathetically easy to trigger. Any harsh battle should trigger a Warp Spasm.

Though it depends on what you consider to be an army.

How would you know?

Myths are based in reality and a lot of the times they reveal sad versions of what the past was often like. Changelings for example are heart wrenching in particular.

Also it is other cues as well. The Symptoms, the Effects, and the causes coincide with what we know of drug overdoses. It has also given people the strength to wrestle groups of people into the ground, add in a bit of mythological exageration and "Make stuff up" and there you go.

[LegoLord]

I've never heard of a drug OD making a man's legs bend backwards.

Why do you keep saying it would be easy to trigger?  When the game is done, and martial trances occur when they should rather than with each ambush or pack of goats, what would be stopping Toady from making these hard to trigger?

[chucks]

I've never heard of a drug OD making a man's legs bend backwards.

Wayne Brady just tricked you into smoking PCP, fool.

[LegoLord]

Okay, now I'm confused.  Who is Wayne Brady?  I'm terrible with names.  What does PCP have to do with it?

[detinith]

I love the idea of a single dwarf (temporarily) turning the tide of battle with a feat of strength and courage. That said, I think we could take Warp Spasms even further.

Rather than granting superdwarven strength and melee prowess, as well as luck, we can make it include every dwarf, and not just melee already-super-dwarves. Divine intervention that shows physical manifestation depending on the personality (and maybe even devotion) of the individual dwarf!

Blinding holy light that stuns nearby enemies, or demonic possession giving even the most humble dwarf (with an unpleasant disposition) a PERMANENT change in personality with a temporary rage related not to adrenaline but to dark forces. You could have marksdwarves firing bolts ignited with demonic/holy flame dealing extra damage or hitting with enough force to drive them away as if struck by your Hammerer. Shields temporarily morphing into avatars of light or darkness. Divine or Demonic Inspiration leading to a battle cry that could frighten enemies away or even fight each other. Is it raining during battle? A lightning bolt from Armok Himself can strike down fleeing enemies, punishing their cowardice. War Dogs can transform into Cerebuses (Cerebii?).

C'mon guys, let's get these so-called 'gods' involved with our dwarves!