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Author Topic: What makes a good Tactics game? Also, Jagged Alliance 2.  (Read 35485 times)

Keiseth

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Re: What makes a good Tactics game? Also, Jagged Alliance 2.
« Reply #120 on: June 22, 2009, 03:02:04 pm »

The funny thing about militia is that they're mysteriously competent when you auto resolve their battles, but only worthwhile as meatshields in actual combat.
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Sowelu

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Re: What makes a good Tactics game? Also, Jagged Alliance 2.
« Reply #121 on: June 22, 2009, 03:07:55 pm »

Eh, my militia are very useful in Drassen on the field!  I don't know why.  Maybe I have LOW standards.

Bobby Ray's doesn't sell any grenades or nightvision for me :( I have sunglasses though, woohoo.

Could someone give me tips on cover?  I've found that trees are not very useful cover at close range...which kinda makes sense, but still.  Also the enemy seems to use cover better than I do about one time in three, which really sucks when they have 4x as many guys...  At one point in Drassen, I had my IMP hiding in a church and burst-firing out the window for great effect...turns out some enemy was crawling up to the window from the side, then suddenly stands up and pops three shots into my head for some obscene amount of damage (over 100).  Wow.  I don't feel bad about quickloading against an enemy that's intelligent...

But yeah, trees seem to suck for cover, I barely notice them blocking shots at all.  I can be somewhat sneaky at night, but do I need to always use silenced/cold loaded/dart rounds?  I always run into problems where okay, I've snuck up to within seven tiles or so, then I blow him away and suddenly I'm catching machine gun fire from the other side of the fence.
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Goron

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Re: What makes a good Tactics game? Also, Jagged Alliance 2.
« Reply #122 on: June 22, 2009, 03:30:47 pm »

Bobby Ray's doesn't sell any grenades or nightvision for me :( I have sunglasses though, woohoo.
I usually play with the highest RobbyRays setting (amazing? or whatever it is). This game I have it set to Great. And, sunglasses are actually good, they extend your vision one space during day (TAKE THEM OFF AT NIGHT!). That one space can make a huge difference!

Could someone give me tips on cover?  I've found that trees are not very useful cover at close range...which kinda makes sense, but still. 
Trees are actually pretty good under the right circumstances. The tree must be directly between you and the enemy, and you must be directly next to it, for best effect. If they are shooting at an angle (flanking you) your tree (or any cover) becomes ineffective against that attacker.
Also the enemy seems to use cover better than I do about one time in three, which really sucks when they have 4x as many guys... 
You got it nose on. They use cover better because they have more men to take hits. You are hitting them probably more hard then they are hitting you, but since they have more people, they can fight a battle of attrition with no problem. You must use maneuvering in addition to the cover.
As you move in a map, move from point of cover to point of cover, that way, when you engage (or get engaged) your people will be safer. That initial cover is not enough though. The 1.13 guys have done a great job of making the AI smarter than standard JA2. The enemy used to just charge at you, not so much any more. They will use cover and flank. So as soon as you engage, use your well entrenched guys to hold the enemy off for a round or two while you maneuver another merc or two around to hit the enemy from the side. If that is not easily done, pull back with your front mercs. Engage then for a round or two, then pull back to a new point of cover. As the enemy moves up to re-engage, you can hit them from the flanks with your other mercs. The longer you stay in one spot, the more likely that 1 in 100 shot will hit you.

At one point in Drassen, I had my IMP hiding in a church and burst-firing out the window for great effect...turns out some enemy was crawling up to the window from the side, then suddenly stands up and pops three shots into my head for some obscene amount of damage (over 100).  Wow.  I don't feel bad about quickloading against an enemy that's intelligent...
Heh... I like to play iron man mode... events like that make me cry.

But yeah, trees seem to suck for cover, I barely notice them blocking shots at all.  I can be somewhat sneaky at night, but do I need to always use silenced/cold loaded/dart rounds?  I always run into problems where okay, I've snuck up to within seven tiles or so, then I blow him away and suddenly I'm catching machine gun fire from the other side of the fence.
Night fights are a perfect time to practice shoot and run tactics. Drop that first guy, then pull back. (assuming not suppressed shot) they will know where you killed him from. As such, they will be looking there hardcore. So if you pull back and COVER YOUR FLANKS they will walk right  into you. The number one thing you can do wrong in a night fight is shoot it out from a fixed position. Cuz soon enough, they will use their superior numbers to get around behind you, and overwhelm you. or worse, the glow sticks will come flying, followed by grenades and machine gun fire as your whole squad sits there like ducks.

EDIT:
I totally forgot... Two important buttons: [Del] and [Ins] (oh god... I think that's them... its two of those keys over there....)
One will show your LOS (line of sight) and the other shows the enemies estimated LOS. Keyword ESTIMATED. Assuming YOU see all enemies that see you, you will know exactly how far and where they can see. But if you don't see one of them, you don't know his LOS.
These keys are GREAT for finding out just how far an enemy can see at night (or day) or knowing if he can see behind that rock, or how far around that corner. In conjunction with using a scout with binocs or a great scope, you can sneak into position much more easily than otherwise. (also, while holding DEL you can press + or - to increase/decrease the size of the LOS footprint.)

EDIT2:
Also, in at least the newest svn version of 1.13 they enabled realtime mode to continue until the enemy enters combat (giving them initiative) or you manually enter combat with ctrl-X (giving you initiative)... if thats the case with the version of 1.13 you are playing, its a good idea to keep your hand on ctrl-x and ready to be first into combat if you think they are about to see you. That way you don't lose a round of combat to them.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2009, 03:38:36 pm by Goron »
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Sowelu

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Re: What makes a good Tactics game? Also, Jagged Alliance 2.
« Reply #123 on: June 22, 2009, 03:44:44 pm »

How many mercs do you recommend fielding in the early game, around the time you only have one mine?

I've been starting out with a team of six (four AIM + one IMP + one local).  Then I add the two crazy psychos from MERC, and rotate people out for errands and training civvies, keeping six guys in each fight.  Do I need to have all eight in order to have a chance at flanking well?  Should I start adding the whole MERC lineup, including that poor schoolteacher, just so I have more people with pistols sitting with all their time units ready to use?

Somehow I never thought of taking my sunglasses off at night.

(I wear my sunglasses at night
So I can So I can
Keep track of the visions in my eyes
[...]
Don't switch the blade on the guy in shades oh no)

Oh man, those edits are going to save my tail.  I never had a clue about either of those.
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Some things were made for one thing, for me / that one thing is the sea~
His servers are going to be powered by goat blood and moonlight.
Oh, a biomass/24 hour solar facility. How green!

Keiseth

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Re: What makes a good Tactics game? Also, Jagged Alliance 2.
« Reply #124 on: June 22, 2009, 03:56:01 pm »

Wow, I didn't know about those keys, Goron- thanks!

I usually draft one or two IMPs (sometimes three- not because they're powerful, but because I like making custom characters, he he) and also Ivan and Fox, keeping Ira for lookout and healing.

I find it becomes cumbersome to command a lot of people around in a turn-based format, so I usually keep attacks pretty small and use guerrilla tactics when I can. I hate huge open areas for that reason, and I love places where I can sneak around and duck between things.
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Goron

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Re: What makes a good Tactics game? Also, Jagged Alliance 2.
« Reply #125 on: June 22, 2009, 04:00:41 pm »

How many mercs do you recommend fielding in the early game, around the time you only have one mine?
Well, do you call it a tomato or a tomato? (hopes people get I mean toe-may-toe or toe-mah-toe) Its really up to you. I personally go our with a team of... ~3 AIM, 1 IMP, and Ira right at the start. I know of people that go with numbers like yours, and I know people that go 1 AIM 1 IMP... or 6 IMP (I don't like that... not paying for mercs seems to easy)... Really, anything goes.
I've been starting out with a team of six (four AIM + one IMP + one local).  Then I add the two crazy psychos from MERC, and rotate people out for errands and training civvies, keeping six guys in each fight.  Do I need to have all eight in order to have a chance at flanking well?  Should I start adding the whole MERC lineup, including that poor schoolteacher, just so I have more people with pistols sitting with all their time units ready to use?
I tend to fight with one squad of 6. Then I'll have as many as 5 'support' mercs. Those are usually MERCs and the other 'natives'. Usually say 2 designated repairers, who  just follow my combat force and repair stuff while I rest/heal/train.  2 designated trainers, who fly around training militia after enemy attacks, and 1 errand boy to do whatever else needs done.
As the game progresses, and I can afford more people, I will usually hire more MERCs to act in support.

very rarely do I use more than one combat squad. But that's just me. The best advice I can give you is do whatever ends up being best for you (vague, huh?).
Somehow I never thought of taking my sunglasses off at night.

(I wear my sunglasses at night
So I can So I can
Keep track of the visions in my eyes
[...]
Don't switch the blade on the guy in shades oh no)
And on that note, take your NVG off during day:-) There is a keyboard shortcut that will isnta swap all your merc's glasses and nvg, once you get em. Keep the nvg on the helmet during day with glasses on face, then at night, hit that key combo (I forget it, sorry) and it will switch em.
Oh man, those edits are going to save my tail.  I never had a clue about either of those.
yeah... sadly there is no complete 'manual' for 1.13... since stuff is added/changed/removed pretty much every week, its hard to keep track of things. And the Bear's Pit forums are soooooo loaded with info, both current and out of date, its hard to catch up:-)

Goron

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Re: What makes a good Tactics game? Also, Jagged Alliance 2.
« Reply #126 on: June 22, 2009, 04:07:44 pm »

Wow, I didn't know about those keys, Goron- thanks!
my pleasure. What address shall I send my consulting bill to?  ;D
I usually draft one or two IMPs (sometimes three- not because they're powerful, but because I like making custom characters, he he) and also Ivan and Fox, keeping Ira for lookout and healing.
I wish there was a way to make extra IMPs have salaries like AIM guys. I modify my IMP settings to allow for higher and lower max/min skill settings, so I can make some pretty wicked guys, so I like to play with only one. That, and I play that the IMP is me so I will play on if a merc dies, but if my IMP dies, I have to reload. (I used to play restart if IMP died, but I found myself restarting a bit too much :-[)

I find it becomes cumbersome to command a lot of people around in a turn-based format, so I usually keep attacks pretty small and use guerrilla tactics when I can. I hate huge open areas for that reason, and I love places where I can sneak around and duck between things.
I used to play the same, but now I am trying to play as a day-warrior. It is hard. As such, I am getting a lot better at open field fights and such, and I find myself utilizing more mercs more often, so I can maintain overwhelming fire superiority.

Sowelu

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Re: What makes a good Tactics game? Also, Jagged Alliance 2.
« Reply #127 on: June 22, 2009, 08:14:18 pm »

Okay, here's a big one.  Is there any way to bandage someone on the field?  I'm getting really tired of "let's run around trying to find the last guy while bleeding to death".  Also, situations where one enemy sniper is hiding in trees, and I have all day to flank him, except everyone's bleeding.
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Some things were made for one thing, for me / that one thing is the sea~
His servers are going to be powered by goat blood and moonlight.
Oh, a biomass/24 hour solar facility. How green!

Goron

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Re: What makes a good Tactics game? Also, Jagged Alliance 2.
« Reply #128 on: June 22, 2009, 09:01:54 pm »

Okay, here's a big one.  Is there any way to bandage someone on the field?  I'm getting really tired of "let's run around trying to find the last guy while bleeding to death".  Also, situations where one enemy sniper is hiding in trees, and I have all day to flank him, except everyone's bleeding.
put a med kit in your hands, then right click and target the victim -errr, the patient.

Gunner-Chan

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Re: What makes a good Tactics game? Also, Jagged Alliance 2.
« Reply #129 on: June 22, 2009, 09:26:04 pm »

Yeah, everyone should have some sort of first aid supply's, otherwise you might end up having someone bleed out at a bad time.
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Jetman123

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Re: What makes a good Tactics game? Also, Jagged Alliance 2.
« Reply #130 on: June 23, 2009, 05:50:30 am »

Always, always, always, always have a medic with at least a first aid kit on hand, preferably a medical kit. (Although you may want to save medical kits for more serious healing by your doctors, bandaging folks doesn't bring back health, only stops them from losing more. This is why I recommend using first aid kits first if you have them, since you want to save the medical kits for time compressed healing.)

JA2 uses a realistic depiction of wounds. Even a shot to the leg or arm can be fatal given time - blood loss is the #1 killer of your mercs, not the actual gunshot. (Also, interestingly enough, damage absorbed by armor doesn't just go away completely - some of it is converted into stamina damage, just like in real life. So getting hit by buckshot might make your merc collapse, but he's not incapped, just winded. You try getting hit by buckshot - it hurts like hell, even if none of it makes it through the armor! :))

If you've taken out all the enemies, you'll be asked if you want to auto-bandage your mercs. If this doesn't happen, or you want to do that at any other time there's no enemy on the field (friendly fire during test firing, or a trap perhaps), you can hit A.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2009, 05:55:29 am by Jetman123 »
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mendonca

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Re: What makes a good Tactics game? Also, Jagged Alliance 2.
« Reply #131 on: June 23, 2009, 06:55:58 am »

Go on Len!

(sorry couldn't resist)

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Il Palazzo

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Re: What makes a good Tactics game? Also, Jagged Alliance 2.
« Reply #132 on: June 23, 2009, 07:16:13 am »

Do you guys find sniper rifles with scopes as game breaking as I do? There's hardly a reason for using anything else.
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Goron

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Re: What makes a good Tactics game? Also, Jagged Alliance 2.
« Reply #133 on: June 23, 2009, 07:57:20 am »

Do you guys find sniper rifles with scopes as game breaking as I do? There's hardly a reason for using anything else.
1.13 is fixing that.
They are still pretty powerful, but even when I am trying to *win at all costs* I actually tend to not bring a sniper into battle. I'll take a designated marksman or two, a support gunner, and the rest carrying standard battle rifles.

HAM, for example (recently added into the 1.13 svn, also release version maybe?), modifies chance to hit a lot, so its not as easy to get a 100% chance to hit with a sniper, I up those numbers myself in the ini too. Also the scopes are given some severe LOS limitations and such.


EDIT:
I just tumbled upon this little guide:
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3053233
Most of it is valid.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2009, 02:08:12 pm by Goron »
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Shadowgandor

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Re: What makes a good Tactics game? Also, Jagged Alliance 2.
« Reply #134 on: June 23, 2009, 05:04:42 pm »

You know, most of you guys are talking about hiring people, while I usually work with my own character and natives only.
Seriously, my character became a beast after a while, although...

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