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[Zironic]

Dungeon Crawl is hard if you want to have fun. Play a warper. All about messing around.

[Okenido]

Also, Incursion is borderline unplayable.

Erm? If you suck?

Stability is not that much of a problem. It IS borderline unbeatable though.

The screen is too big, for one thing; some resolutions can't play it well because portions of the game aren't visible. Also, character creation is tedious and confusing. It's seriously unpolished, too. It'll probably be a good game later, but it has a lot of flaws now.

I could also say that about Crawl.

[inaluct]

Also, Incursion is borderline unplayable.

Erm? If you suck?

Stability is not that much of a problem. It IS borderline unbeatable though.

The screen is too big, for one thing; some resolutions can't play it well because portions of the game aren't visible. Also, character creation is tedious and confusing. It's seriously unpolished, too. It'll probably be a good game later, but it has a lot of flaws now.

I could also say that about Crawl.

Crawl's window fits on the screen of an Eee PC (they're those tiny ones), character creation takes like 5 key presses and everything is obvious, and it's undergone extensive revision and bugfixes.

In other words; no, you can't say any of those things about Crawl.

[Okenido]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Pure lies. (Taken on at 1280 by 800.)
You have to have a screen resolution higher than 720 for it to show everything.

During character creation you are given the choice of 25 species, all of which are poorly documented, and unbalanced from each other.
One screen later your given an even more poorly documented list of 24 classes.
You see where I'm going here?

In addition the dungeons are dull as hell, with nondescript tunnels which can lead more than 50 squares in the same direction without encountering anything, the special features to spice up the maps are laughable, as they usually are only adding an impassable liquid, rooms that actually look like they were made by some of the sentient creatures yet contain nothing, and vast caverns that force you, and your foes to go only in diagonal directions.

[magikarcher]

Unrelated to the Dungeon Crawl borderline flame war:  Gearhead doesn't work for me, did I pick the wrong install, what install SHOULD I pick for Windows XP 32-bit.

[Okenido]

DOSWin.

[inaluct]

That's the tiles version, you idiot. Incursion has a hideous ASCII version that takes up a huge chunk of the screen.

The details of Crawl's species and classes are well documented and extremely obvious. Do you honestly think that people will be confused as to what a Troll is, or what an Assassin does? Incursion has you with set your stats, skills, and a bunch of other things, most of which are barely explained at all.

Also, I can see that you haven't made it past the first 5 or so levels many times. And you know about the 'o' button, right?

Oh wait, you don't. Because you don't know what you're talking about.

[Okenido]

Auto explore is not an excuse for drab level design.

[cowofdoom78963]

Character creation is tedious and confusing. It's seriously unpolished, too.

Speak for yourself! You can customise your character to a much greater detail then in crawl. Not to mention that you can restart as a previously created character a number of times in Incursion to avoid this burden if it bothers you so much.

As for resolution I have to agree. Ive had troubles with Incursions "size" from time to time as well, and would be lieing if I said otherwise.

Anyway as far as Im concerned its loads more fun then Crawl. In crawl you always encounter the same stock roguelike characters you've seen millions of times. Such as jackles, jellys, rats, and such. In Incursion just about every enemy is unique, carrying different armour, sometimes with different subraces. Not to mention that with the right stats you can tame monsters and befriend former enemys in incursion. In crawl the only way to make allys seems to be through majic and (possibly?) rare scrolls and/or potions.

Crawl doesnt even have half the interaction of incursion, and thats being generous. Incursion has plenty of unique ways to deal with problems. In crawl your only options seem to be kill,eat,wait, and die. Or read some random scroll or drink a potion (witch falls into "eat", I guess).

Crawls gameplay is so simple and diluted I feel like Im playing nethack for kindergardners. Honestly it feels patronising to have only strength, intelligence, and dexterity.

From how I see it Crawl attempts to appeal to a more casual audience by striping the game of features too "complicated." Sure its squeeky clean and free of bugs, but so is pong. And you dont see anyone complimenting it for that.

And I honestly tried to play crawl, but it was just too bland. I have trouble understanding how people can enjoy it... I get more entertainment playing angband variants(well, at least they hold my attention longer).

Unrelated to the Dungeon Crawl borderline flame war:  Gearhead doesn't work for me, did I pick the wrong install

Just a pleasant debate, no where near a flame war(ok Inalucts most recent post may have changed that). Anyway how doesnt it work? Can you explain in more detail?

Also, I can see that you haven't made it past the first 5 or so levels many times.

No, thats becuase the game is boring. Im sorry, but theres no hook. I've never gotten farther then the second level in incursion but it keeps me coming back, I cant say the same for crawl.

And you know about the 'o' button, right?

Oh wait, you don't. Because you don't know what you're talking about.

Normaly I would think this would be to open doors... But no...

Instead this key is mapped to automaticaly walk through the already boring dungeons. Honestly thats pretty sad, the game is so dull that it has to play itself. I cant say I've ever had to "auto-explore" in Incursion(or any other game for that matter), as theres always something unexpected around the next corner to keep me on my toes.

Edit: Lets try to keep this civil if we want to continue this debate without this topic being closed due to a flame war. Its acctualy quite interesting, and would like to continue it.

[Tilla]

This thread is officially horribad. Congratulations

[Keiseth]

I don't really like Crawl. It's very traditional and it does what it wants to do perfectly, it just doesn't do much that I want to see.

I prefer, usually, more open-world Roguelikes. ToME, Elona, DF, Gearhead, and to some extent ADOM.

I love Incursion but the level cap depresses me. All of the cool stuff is AFTER level 9. I'm not a huge fan of DnD 3.5 rules for a couple of trivial reasons, but Incursion handles it really nicely.

It might not give you everything you wanted, but may I suggest Hengband? It's quite a unique Japanese variant of Angband with a lot of depth despite the looks. The classes are the most unique I've seen, up there or slightly past ToME's. I recommend ToME too, if you can-- they're both based off Zangband, I believe.

Hengband has a race, the Android, that levels up by wearing better equipment. This makes them primarily warriors or berserkers, though. In addition, there are really unique classes, like the Mirror Master who places titular mirrors around and their placement or use augments his powers. The Ninja can hardly operate in a lit area, but can create zones of darkness exceedingly cheaply and will do this often to good effect. The beastmaster captures and trains monsters, possibly using capture balls.

ToME has its share of unique classes, too. The symbiote wears non-moving monsters and gains their abilities; get a Draconic Qualythlog (almost positively spelled that wrong) and begin summoning dragons constantly. The, I think... Possessor? Can leave his body and inhabit a dead body, to effectively play as any character they can kill (and are lucky enough to find a body of.)

[magikarcher]

Unrelated to the Dungeon Crawl borderline flame war:  Gearhead doesn't work for me, did I pick the wrong install

Just a pleasant debate, no where near a flame war(ok Inalucts most recent post may have changed that). Anyway how doesnt it work? Can you explain in more detail?

It says an unhandled exception occurred at $000##### and a few more lines of similar text.

[Roundabout Lout]

This thread is officially horribad. Congratulations

Quoted for Truth

[Gabeux]

Actually, you have to download

gh-1100-sdlwin.zip and
gh-1100-sdlimage.zip [extract to the same directory]

Let's say I've been playing this for 5 hours straight already, pretty cool

The problem is that it takes too much time to level up etc.. but i'm getting the hang of it..

Climb on a hill with the mech and pwn

[dreiche2]

So, what would you guys recommend to a more casual player? I played DoomRL so far and quite liked it, now I'd like to try something new, but don't want to spend too much time memorizing wikis while doing so...