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[Rysith]

Because offering to help and gauging response gives me information even if you are a doppelganger. Revealing my role to you when you are a doppleganger but not directly attacking me doesn't give me as much information, and puts me in danger of being targeted. As a townie, if you hand me someone that I was already inclined to target, I can target them and trust you more. If you hand me someone that I was inclined not to target, I trust you less. Thus, even if you are a dopp I win by offering help and receiving a target. I even mentioned in that message that I wasn't sure of your non-dopp status. Is it so unreasonable to try to hold information when dealing with a non-trusted source?

Of course, that's all rather moot with the second PM. You know what I am now, and so will everyone else if you choose to keep attacking me.

[JoshuaFH]

Would you have ever come forward Rysith? Would you have ever really come forward to help? What, to you, is a trustable source?

I bought the town quite a bit of time with that scheme of mine, and I'm willing to get gamble to get rid of the dopp warden before he interferes with my information collecting.

[JoshuaFH]

Meph, are dopps allowed into the dead chat? I can't remember.

[Frelock]

First off, you still haven't answered my question on the supposed "evidence" you have against me.  You also didn't answer my question on how you supposedly orchestrated the death of two dopps and two aliens.  You're speaking big, but without any proof to back it up with.

[JoshuaFH]

Fine, you want to know how Alex died? He died protecting YOU! I told Pandar to attack you, as he was going to die anyway and agreed to help the town in his last moments, and instead of you dying, Alex does. Webadict was the one to attack Pandar (and thus got killed by his deadman bomb) which I've confirmed thanks to archangel. So, unless Pandar went back on his promise to perform one last kill for the town, you're a dopp, without a doubt.

But, looking things over:

Huh, Pandarsenic was telling the truth. I honestly thought he was a dopp hunter claiming exterminator + bomb to keep himself alive after using the shield while he tried to find someone to grab and run with.

Who told you Pandar had a deadman bomb Rysith? Were you and Pandar having some conversations I didn't know about?

[Rysith]

Would you have ever come forward Rysith? Would you have ever really come forward to help? What, to you, is a trustable source?

This is mafia. A well set up game has no trustable sources. What I asked for were suggestions, on the principle that those suggestions could guide the use of my role regardless of whether you were a dopp or not. Suggesting webadict (a person I was already suspicious of) would have given me information. Suggesting Archangel (a person who I'm neutral on) would have gotten another one. It's a question of past reliability, not trust.

I bought the town quite a bit of time with that scheme of mine, and I'm willing to get gamble to get rid of the dopp warden before he interferes with my information collecting.

If, as Frelock questions, it was your scheme that bought you the time. To me, it looks like the people involved are blaming webadict. Unless you somehow convinced the dopps that Pandarsenic was bluffing and went after Alexhans on the side, I really don't see how much credit you can claim for that.

Fake Edit:

Oh, hey! I figured out what happened last night! Everything didn't go precisely as planned, and I was wondering why, then it hit me! Frelock is a dopp too!

I told Pandar to attack you, as he was going to die anyway and agreed to help the town in his last moments, and instead of you dying, Alex does.

So you claim that you told Pandar to attack Frelock without knowing that he was a dopp, over a basically known dopp like webadict? What? And if the dopps had a bodyguard and a protector attacking someone they at least suspected to have a deadman bomb, why wouldn't they use the bodyguard (who would die anyway) to make the potentially risky kill over the protector (who wouldn't die if attacked)?

And, though I now notice you weren't on the list, Pandar sent out an "I have a deadman bomb!" message to 10 people last night. He then said that he had sent it to everyone, so I assumed that he had run into the maximum PM recipients and needed to send it as two messages. I know A_Fey_Dwarf got a copy of it, so you can ask him.

[JoshuaFH]

I can't account for team dopp's sudden drop in intelligence in that case. If they suspected that Pandar had a deadman bomb, why they sent there protector to kill him is beyond me.

Really, it is, I expected them to do the best thing possible... and they did the worst. It blows my mind.

[Frelock]

Fine, you want to know how Alex died? He died protecting YOU! I told Pandar to attack you, as he was going to die anyway and agreed to help the town in his last moments, and instead of you dying, Alex does. Webadict was the one to attack Pandar (and thus got killed by his deadman bomb) which I've confirmed thanks to archangel. So, unless Pandar went back on his promise to perform one last kill for the town, you're a dopp, without a doubt.

Well, Pandar went back on his promise then.  I stayed in my house all night, and there was no epic action scene.  Really, did you think you could trust an exterminator (a neutral role) who claims to be a survivor, (luckily for us right before a survivor flips)?  I also agree with Rysith on this one, it would have been far better to eliminate someone people were already suspicious of (ie, webadict) rather than attacking a random townie.  My personal opinion is that perhaps Alex responded to that PM, falling for Panda's trick and revealing that he was a dopp.  Then Panda goes after this new target.  Perhaps Webadict was the one who suggested it, hence the blame going around with the dead.

I can also confirm Rysith's statement about Pandar's PM to all during the night.

[Archangel]

Pandar sent the "I have a deadman bomb" thing to me, but he didn't say he'd sent it to everyone. In fact, his exact words were "I'm sending this to a few people - if you're a Dopp, I'd like to have a word with you."

[Mephansteras]

Meph, are dopps allowed into the dead chat? I can't remember.

Yes, when Dopps die they are given access to the dead chat and lose the privilege of posting in the dopp chat.

[Flintus10]

Well who did not get the pm's?

[A_Fey_Dwarf]

Hmm, I am going to have to trust chaoticjosh here. I am willing to follow him, and I see the point to his argument.
Vote Rysith

[Rysith]

As threatened to chaoticjosh last night, here's the roleclaim I sent him shortly before he posted misinterpreting my previous partial claim. All "you" and "your" reference chaoticjosh. Keep in mind that he's known this through most of today's arguments.

So, a bit of analysis and an brief application of game theory later...

There are two possibilities for your town/dopphood, and two possible actions for me to take, leading to four situations:

1) You are a dopp, and I don't roleclaim. I die, since either I get lynched today or killed tonight, since that would mean that I've been targeted by the dopps for whatever reason.
2) You are a dopp, and I roleclaim. I still die, since you had already decided to target me regardless of my role. At the very least, I'll air this message before my death and subsequent town-flip in the hopes that the rest of the town will take you out.
3) You are town, and I don't roleclaim. You clearly believe me to be a dopp in that case, and (with the town base of you + Nuke + AFD) lynch me. I flip town, everyone loses.
4) You are town, and I roleclaim. If you don't believe me, it's equivalent to not roleclaiming. If you do, I don't get lynched, the town base gains a power role and a vote, and we all win.

With that in mind, I'm going to go ahead and roleclaim to you, since it can only improve my position. If you keep voting for me, I'll publicly roleclaim as mentioned in the dopp + roleclaim scenario. Now that I've analyzed how a town base could have formed and begun to include you on day three, I can see a path for you to be pro-town, especially if you really do believe that survivors are liabilities, a position that I can see but do not share.

I am a Human Psychic Warden. That you got my role correct points to Nuke being a detective. I can see where you decided that I must be lying, since wardens can have noticeable effects on the game. The trouble is that I can't prove my pro-townness with that the way that an AWV can (since AWVs are pro-town only), and when I sent the message I was reluctant to go revealing everything. I'm also unfortunately shielded from the detective/telepath combo you would have, since I'd show up as protect/telepath which is ambiguous. Either that, or you just like killing me when I claim pro-town, like you did last paranormal game  .

Night one, I targeted you, which I'm sure you noticed. Night two, I targeted Webadict, and night three I targeted Flintus. All people that I was suspicious of at the time (and am still suspicious of, except for Webadict). The hope was that, given my total lack of information on useful people to block, I'd at least hit a dopp and prevent them from doing something. I'm not sure how well that worked, though, since I don't get any feedback on what they would have done, and I didn't manage to hit the dopp sent to kill that night (thus why I was extra-suspicious of webadict Day Three when there wasn't a dopp kill, and more suspicious of you when you deflected the vote off from him.).

So, there is my claim, my actions, and my explanations for them. If you do have a town base, I'd urge you to let me in, or at least let me live and feed me targets to let me prove myself. If you don't, as I've said before I'll post this claim in the thread in roughly twelve hours in the hope that my fellow townies will save me at least long enough to spend another night blocking people I think are dopplegangers. Either way, my survival is now in the hands of things other than keeping my role secret.

I no longer suspect Nuke of actively being involved as much as I did when I sent that message, but especially with AFD's vote for me I'm convinced that if chaoticjosh is a dopp, so is AFD. I've also been shown to be wrong about the method through which chaoticjosh learned that I was a warden, or so he claims, but I'm maintaining the original message for accuracy. And given chaoticjosh's willful disregard for evidence that opposes whatever conclusion he's come to, he's either a dopp or delusional. My vote for chaoticjosh stands.

[NUKE9.13]

NUKE9.13 listens to Rysith speak, ponders it for a while, and then stands.
Ok. I'm pretty sure I know what is going on. Firstly- ARaseraw- YOU GUYS I DIDN'T TARGET FRELOCK- ahem. All in good time, panda. As I was saying, AFD is as claimed a mystic capable of discerning a man's goal- a telepath, if you will. However, he is not the innocent town's man he claims to be- he is what we call a- afleepble-MURDERING DOPPELGANGER- yes thank you. As is what's his face. Chaoticjosh. The entire AFD claiming telepath was a well-executed plan.
Chaoticjosh did have contact with Pandarsenic. He had this contact primarily because he knew there was a medium. Because AFD performed his arcane rituals upon me and found me to be a FIND role which indeed is the goal of the medium.
Yah this guy is the medium.
Also doing this is really annoying for him.
So he tried to use pandarsenic to kill people for the dopps.
But no. Pandarsenic backstabbed him.
But the bodyguard (alexhans) protected him.
So yeah.
AFD and chaoticjosh are dopps.
Kill them all.
Start with A_Fey_Dwarf, he is powerrole.

[Rysith]

Well, chaoticjosh may well be a power role too, but if the town is going to get a lynch in it's not going to do any good to split votes between two dopps. I'd argue that chaoticjosh, if he is actually a medium, is more dangerous than AFD, but I'll follow Nuke's lead and unvote, then vote A_Fey_Dwarf.