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[Mephansteras]

Except that the Bodyguard isn't told who they guarded against, though, do they?

A Bodyguard will not know who killed them. However, they will have a general idea what killed them.

Also, a player that is protected from an attack will learn that there was an attack, although they generally get no other information about who was involved.

[Pandarsenic]

:I

We know what killed our Bodyguard, though, so that doesn't tell us much.

Also, did someone say something to the effect of the person Twiggie guarded being clear of suspicion? If so, I FoS whoever did that because targeting by the Exterminator doesn't clear him of suspicion of being a Dopp. If anything, it might be someone the Exterminator thinks is a Dopp.

[NUKE9.13]

Medium can't be a dopp, right?

I remember everyone that the first post has a list of roles and information about them.

That was actually Mr.Person, but anyway.

Right now, chaoticjosh looks the most suspicious to me. His posting is infrequent and comparatively low on useful content- but come to think of it josh doesn't always make a big impression, regardless of alignment.

Well, I think that we can probably rule out chaoticjosh as the one that Twiggie defended, since Twiggie did vote for him yesterday.

Hmmn. Ok, but how is that useful? Why drop in to say just that? It seems like something you might say if you were a dopp/exterminator who attacked someone, only to kill twiggie instead, whilst you vainly hoped they would be protecting chaoticjosh.
-might- say. Please respond to clarify why you thought it was important.

People who didn't vote last round: A FoS upon you all! Voting patterns and arguments are the basics of mafia! By not voting we have no evidence to go on against you- great, you think- that way they won't kill me (a loyal townie). WRONG. If no better lynch targets appear YOU WILL DIE.

Chaoticjosh: I have not especially noticed flintus doing very much. Also I doubt all dopps are active players. Most active players are ok-to experienced mafia players, whilst at least a third of the players are begginger-to-okish. Whilst their dopp buddies would advise them to participate a bit, there is no guarantee that they would follow their advice fully.
 
Panda: Well, as I see no PM from a cop in my inbox, I assume that either I have not been checked or the checker is wondering whether I might be a dopp leader.

[Org]

Im going to need a replacement. I am leaving Tomorrow for a Week.

Sorry

[Mephansteras]

Hmm. Ok, we'll see what we can find.

[JoshuaFH]

Ah, I didn't realize some things I said jokingly (about my "monologue") would fuel people's suspicions of me.

Of course, you should know by now that I never expected for the protector to actually protect me, I merely wanted to deliberately draw suspicion onto myself. I can't remember exactly what this entailed, but I can see plainly now that it didn't quite work out.

Also Pandar, you should take note that I've never random voted anyone ever, so why you expect me to now is beyond me.

[Pandarsenic]

Because you should be random-voting.

As for why you're trying to draw suspicion, I can only imagine, but it's working.

[Rysith]

Hooray, a post targeting me!

I'd guess that Kashyyk was a random kill. I'm not entirely sure, though, since I can't think of a reason why an operative would have objected to a random non-alien lynch (he defended Twiggie, but not much else).

Excuse me, I don't quite follow what you're saying here.  Can you rephrase please?

So, we know that Kashyyk was an operative, and that Twiggie was a protector (and thus, not an alien, and thus not allied with Kashyyk). Kashyyk's only contribution on Day One was saying that he would rather not have Twiggie lynched. Given the lack of drawing suspicion to him, I can't think of a reason to specifically target Kashyyk. Given the operative status, I can't think of a reason to oppose Twiggie's lynch, thus positing some potential private communication that might make him a more attractive target. My gut feeling is that it was a random dopp kill, though.

Twiggie was protecting someone, though. It would be interesting to find out who.

How do we know who was protected?  Flavour?

Whoever was protected will know that they were protected, as Meph said.

However, if I were Twiggie, I likely would have protected one of the people likely to be targeted, such as Webadict, Inaluct, or ChaoticJosh. That they were targeted likely means that they were pro-town (though my suspicions of them being exterminator-killed don't rule out being a dopp). That he died protecting them also means that he wasn't considered important enough for any of the killing roles to go after last night, which is interesting given the lack of prominent deaths going on.

So... how you KNOW that a killing role targetted web, Josh or inaluct? and twiggie protected them? Why do you think someone didn't target twiggie himself? (I have a theory but I want your answer)

I don't know. I was speculating that if I were Twiggie, I would have protected one of the players likely to be targeted the first night, such as the list that I gave. That whoever Twiggie targeted was attacked (since he was killed "doing his duty") seems to support that. Had he been dopp-killed there would be a very strong argument that whoever he was protecting was not a dopp, and (probably) not an exterminator either. That he seems to have been exterminator-killed rather than dopp killed weakens the argument somewhat, but I think that it still holds some water. I'm not saying that that entire list is pro-town (and, given the density of non-town roles, they are likely not), but that someone on that list is likely pro-town, and was protected by Twiggie last night.

So Josh, web and inaluct are not dopps in your opinion?

No, it's quite likely that at least one of them is a dopp. My conclusion is in the above paragraph.

Rysith.  I'm happy you're posting what you think.  Keep going.  Try to scumhunt even though you're not self-confident.  If you never start you will never learn from mistakes.

Thank you for the encouragement. I'll go ahead and start baselessly accusing people, then.

First, I'll jump on the chaoticjosh bandwagon. He's been active in other mafias and not commented here, which to me undermines the computer issues inactivity excuse, which to me says "I'm lurking scum". He also hasn't made much of an effort to defend himself. The lack of random voting doesn't bother me because if it did, I'd have to accuse myself. I can understand not wanting to vote without at least moderate suspicion.

Second, I'll point out that Webadict has been being very passive this game, gathering statistics and not contributing much to the discussion, and certainly not trying to organize things (for good or for ill).

[webadict]

Webadict, on your list it says I did not vote anyone, (Which is true), and then you forget to put me in your list of people who did not randomly vote. I feel left out.
Also, I'm suspicious as to how whoever Twiggie died against didn't die. Does this mean that there is a Dopp surgeon, or someone with a shield? It's possible Kashyyk attacked someone, broke his shield on Twiggie and then was attacked by a dopp.

My bad. I was really tired and must've skimmed over it. In which case, why don't you tell everyone why you didn't vote?

I'm surprised no one has brought this possibility up yet: there is no townie protector. Twiggie roleclaimed bodyguard, so the town protector will protect him as he protects somebody else, thus creating a protectee < bodyguard < Protector chain that is perfectly safe so long as the protector is unknown. So, safe bet right? Well, it's not, apparently, as the protector either didn't believe Twiggie, was roleblocked, or doesn't exist to begin with.

Also, it appears AFD doesn't like me being adversarial. I wonder why.

And while I'm appreciative, I still don't get why Webadict went out of his way to "protect" me. Breaking a tie in my favor would only throw suspicion on me, and it would be most beneficial for him if he were a dopp, a survivor, or an exterminator, and the possibility that he's any is very real.

Now, Let me propose a theory. If we assume that all dopps are active, and that all dopps voted last round, then, excluding myself and the deceased, the candidates for dopphood are:

AFD, Alexhans, Flintus, Kashyyk, Webadict, Org, and Pandarsenic.

With 5 dopps, we have a 5/7 of hitting a dopp. Of course, I could be totally wrong.

Hey Flintus! Come on out and talk with us already!

I disagree. The Bodyguard became a protect-all against death, and no longer can be surgeoned, if I remember correctly. So, if the Bodyguard was protecting someone, the person they protected should be notified if they were attacked, or the bodyguard himself was attacked.

Also, the Exterminator killed Twiggie, so even finding out who he protected does very little. I think Pandarsenic already said that though.

Shower eh?  Do you need to remove dry blood from body?
...
Pandar:  Trading a medium for just ONE dopp is a BAD idea.  It would be better to wait until we have more deaths and more info from the graveyard.
...
Pandar was about to trade a medium for useless info about a bodyguards target.
...
Rysith.  I'm happy you're posting what you think.  Keep going.  Try to scumhunt even though you're not self-confident.  If you never start you will never learn from mistakes.
...

They know whom they protected, though.

So?  You'd trade a medium for that info?
...
OH... about inaluct's OMGUSes... meh... I'm not sure... I sure know that he is a grudgy, irrational player who can make the following newb thought process:
"Hey, that guy is voting for me... he must be scum cuz I'm town!  Vote That guy"

Also, FoS Chaoticjosh for his behavior.

Specifically why?

Re: Shower - Not cool, man, I've been without hot water for like 3 days. D:
Re: Medium - The Medium has been a powerful role in the past, true - but keep in mind, it's not trade Medium for Dopp, OR trade Medium for whom Twiggie guarded. It's find out who Twiggie guarded with a possibility of Dopps or Exterminator discovering who it is - in which case, the trade of Medium for Dopp happens in addition to finding out Twiggie's target.
Re: inaluct - He can think that, or he might be more calculating. With inaluct, you can never be quite sure.

Spoiler: FoS on chaoticjosh (click to show/hide)

Day 1, I call him out on silence and he claims computer issues, talks about a "lengthy and indepth monologue of [his] suspicion" he'll post later... but the game had been running all of 6 hours by then and most of the game so far had been discussion of the Operative's powers. His suspicion post the next day says that he knows nothing about inaluct; he then calls out who we now know to be an AWV, webadict, and Nuke. I find it a bit suspicious, in fact, that he didn't have any suspicion of me - the Big 5 (Pandarsenic/Alexhans/Inaluct/Webadict/Chaoticjosh) are almost always perpetually suspicious of each other. I think he may have been making a point of avoiding even an OMGUS FoS, while he mentions how webadict voted twice, possibly trying to draw away attention. He then ASKED FOR THE PROTECTOR TO CHOOSE HIM and said he was confused about who was voting for whom. When the Twiggie bandwagon started rolling, he voted second (perhaps trying to get a bandwagon rolling and get in before the Suspicion Point?) while FoSing you.

At this point, I realized chaoticjosh NEVER random-voted. He went straight to Twiggie then failed to post for most of Day 1 until he complained that we weren't killing Twiggie post-roleclaim... after which, he voted for NUKE9.13, echoing my suspicion of him earlier - making me wonder if he switched from calling out webadict over and over to going out of his way to do things that won't draw the attention of other Big 5 members.

REACTION TO NEW POST: He has just give a Finger of Suspicion to every other Big 5 member except for inaluct, whom he earlier seemed to be screening against webadict (who is on his new suspicion list).

Actually, hell. Let's see what Chaoticjosh has to say about those, shall we?

Also, I feel a repeat of my FoS on Nuke for asking to be investigated if Twiggie flipped town (which he since has) is in order.

Don't you think I would've used a Plasma Bomb the first Night if I were the Exterminator, when the chances of people interacting are at its highest? Of course, I can't say that that would mean much, given that I said it. But, I'm not the Exterminator. Otherwise, someone would've either been plasma bombed or assassin botted or something.

Alexhans, if you're going to try and assume that the Dopps and the Exterminator are of equal anti-Townieness, you're mistaken. Think clearly about this: The Exterminator adds another kill, with a ratio of hitting a non-Dopp to hitting a Dopp are 9:5, while the Dopps chance of hitting a non-Dopp are 1. Do not ever think they are the same.

[JoshuaFH]

"active in other mafias" Rysith? I've only been active in this mafia, I've been effectively ignoring the others, and not because of computer issues (as that was only for that one post, cause I was at somebody else's house).

But why bandwagon against me Rysith?

[Alexhans]

And while I'm appreciative, I still don't get why Webadict went out of his way to "protect" me. Breaking a tie in my favor would only throw suspicion on me, and it would be most beneficial for him if he were a dopp, a survivor, or an exterminator, and the possibility that he's any is very real.

This could very well mean that you're both dopps.  It makes him as scummy as you.  Don't get the wrong idea.  You both voted at the last second after I had fosed thetoe.

Now, Let me propose a theory. If we assume that all dopps are active, and that all dopps voted last round, then, excluding myself and the deceased, the candidates for dopphood are:

AFD, Alexhans, Flintus, Kashyyk, Webadict, Org, and Pandarsenic.

With 5 dopps, we have a 5/7 of hitting a dopp. Of course, I could be totally wrong.

:roll:  I don't know if this is serious or not... but it's lame... So scum wont lurk in your opinion?

Pandar:  Interesting post.  I'll think about it.

Re: Medium - The Medium has been a powerful role in the past, true - but keep in mind, it's not trade Medium for Dopp, OR trade Medium for whom Twiggie guarded. It's find out who Twiggie guarded with a possibility of Dopps or Exterminator discovering who it is - in which case, the trade of Medium for Dopp happens in addition to finding out Twiggie's target.

Suppose you contact the medium.
He tells you who he protected...  AND???
We WONT get the killer.  And it's obv that the exterminator DIDNT kill his operative... so... NO good info.
The protected person can also tell you...

Also, a player that is protected from an attack will learn that there was an attack, although they generally get no other information about who was involved.

meh... I had actually wrote a some stuff calling for the "protected" person to come out promising that they would be half cleared but there is no way dopps are gonna fall for that...  it would out them too much.

I was the one who twiggie protected and I'm DAMNED thankful for it.

THANKS TWIGGIE!  You did your part after all!

I was probably targeted by the exterminator Alien... wich makes me think for a bit about inaluct... If you've played on IRC you'll see that he enjoys shooting me... I'll have to read his posts and see.

see pandar?  I'm out.  I was protected... NO new info... no need to get the Medium out.

Pandar: Of course I'm not cleared.  It would be highly unlikely that I were Exterminator alien (A vig would know) but I could perfectly be a dopp.

Oh... you can now understand why I was angry about rysith's analysys trying to clear webadict, inaluct and josh... 3 suspicious characters IMO...

Chaoticjosh: I have not especially noticed flintus doing very much. Also I doubt all dopps are active players. Most active players are ok-to experienced mafia players, whilst at least a third of the players are begginger-to-okish. Whilst their dopp buddies would advise them to participate a bit, there is no guarantee that they would follow their advice fully.

Wise words nuke.

Of course, you should know by now that I never expected for the protector to actually protect me, I merely wanted to deliberately draw suspicion onto myself. I can't remember exactly what this entailed, but I can see plainly now that it didn't quite work out.

WIFOMing everyone doesn't help town... At all.  We should try to be as simpler as possible although we might pull one or two gambyts sometimes we have to make sure they will benefit town the most.

Josh:  RVS isn't bad... read a mafiascum game and you will see how useful it can be.

As for why you're trying to draw suspicion, I can only imagine, but it's working.

lol XD

Rysith...
Protector != Bodyguard
Protector protects but doesnt die
BOdyguard dies instead of his target.

First, I'll jump on the chaoticjosh bandwagon. He's been active in other mafias and not commented here

^^this is NOT cool.  People can be busy and some games may differ from others. 

MIXING UP GAMES IS A BAD IDEA because people may have different goals and allignments in different games.  If josh is scum here he will have to lie, wich will make him unreliable in other game where he might be town... meta-gaming like that is NOT cool.  Let's separate each game.

MOD: I Would like to enforce a new rule widely used in mafiascum about not being allowed to talk about other ongoing games

although I find Josh pretty scummy I'm disgusted that his bandwaggon has grown so fast.

I want the people who havent yet voted to do so.  And those who didn't random vote must state their suspicions.

[Mephansteras]

Rysith...
Protector != Bodyguard
Protector protects but doesnt die
BOdyguard dies instead of his target.

Hmm...I think the confusion here comes from the fact that protect is a Goal as well as the Protector being a Role. Perhaps I should rename Protector to Guardian. Same basic idea, maybe less confusion.

MOD: I Would like to enforce a new rule widely used in mafiascum about not being allowed to talk about other ongoing games

I think it's a good idea to keep things separate. So, yeah, let's keep speculation in this game centered on this game. If you want to clear someone for lurking based on the fact that they haven't posted on bay 12 at all, fine. Otherwise, let's leave people's posting habits out of it. Other games will encourage other behavior, and some people may post in other places but not get a chance to post here.

[Pandarsenic]

I'll second the "Games in isolation" rule. Too much metamafia hurts the game.

Alexhans: We only get the killer if the person who passed on the info is a Dopp (or if he doesn't pass on the info) who goes for the Medium. If you spoke true, then yes, the Exterminator targeted you.

If someone else was bodyguarded, please say so now so we can catch the liar.

[webadict]

And while I'm appreciative, I still don't get why Webadict went out of his way to "protect" me. Breaking a tie in my favor would only throw suspicion on me, and it would be most beneficial for him if he were a dopp, a survivor, or an exterminator, and the possibility that he's any is very real.

This could very well mean that you're both dopps.  It makes him as scummy as you.  Don't get the wrong idea.  You both voted at the last second after I had fosed thetoe.

So, if I had voted for you, Josh, then wouldn't that also make Toe look suspicious? It wouldn't matter a whole lot which one I voted for, but I felt that at least you, Josh, would contribute more than he would, and I certainly can't let a no lynch happen, because that just invalidates all our information.

As for how that makes either of us suspicious that we'd both vote for Toe, that's simply stupid. I told you, we have information now. If we had no lynched, we'd have to go off whatever votes we had, and hoped people had died to show their alignment. I'm not saying it was good we lynched a Townie, but where would we be if no one died? We'd be here, on Day 2, with less information to go off of. If I had voted for anyone else, we'd simply have a bunch of ties unless someone was an Enchanter, which I wasn't going to count on.

MOD: I Would like to enforce a new rule widely used in mafiascum about not being allowed to talk about other ongoing games

I think it's a good idea to keep things separate. So, yeah, let's keep speculation in this game centered on this game. If you want to clear someone for lurking based on the fact that they haven't posted on bay 12 at all, fine. Otherwise, let's leave people's posting habits out of it. Other games will encourage other behavior, and some people may post in other places but not get a chance to post here.

What about using information from past games (Such as the Org Tell)? Is that now off-limits?

Also, I'm going to have to go with inaluct, for his many scummy behaviors I have previously listed.

[NUKE9.13]

For my obligatory random vote, I'm going to vote R1ck-

Well, I think that we can probably rule out chaoticjosh as the one that Twiggie defended, since Twiggie did vote for him yesterday.

Hmmn. Ok, but how is that useful? Why drop in to say just that? It seems like something you might say if you were a dopp/exterminator who attacked someone, only to kill twiggie instead, whilst you vainly hoped they would be protecting chaoticjosh.
-might- say. Please respond to clarify why you thought it was important.