Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Craftling]

When you have accidentely dug out an extra channel, or you want to make an indoor farm, there should be a fill in designation. It would work by designating a location over a channelled area, and then you will be asked what materiel to use (sand, microline etc.) and then a dwarf with the hauling skill will start to fill in the chanelled location.
It would be easier if loam/clay left remains though (but I think this is coming).

[Thanshin]

b->C->W?

Or you specifically want them to fill the spot from above.

[Craftling]

From the same level as the hole.

.....                 . being hole
.,...                 , being filled in
..,..

[Shaostoul]

Thanshin was talking about building a wall if you didn't get that, but I like the idea, returning a natural wall/filling channels. Could be handled like sand for glassmaking?

[Exponent]

I like the idea in general, but in terms of gameplay, I think realistic cave-ins and more difficult farming need to come first.

You can never quite fill in a solid rock mountain to be as strong as it was before digging it out.  At least not with any pre-1400 technology that I'm aware of, and certainly not with any material that you wish.  Recreating a natural wall that is indistinguishable from any other natural wall would however allow this; these filled in walls would be strong enough to prevent cave-ins just like ordinary natural walls, and this seems inappropriate.  (Obviously, there is already a large amount of inappropriateness, such as building an entire fort of obsidian off the side of a single floor tile of sand.  But let's allow that issue to be resolved first, rather than making it even more severe than it is now.)

Secondly, being able to dump sand/soil wherever you want would make underground farming way too easy.  It already is way to easy.  Glassmaking would also become easier.  These tasks need to become more appropriately difficult first.  Farming needs a repeated supply of water; one application of soil at the beginning of time shouldn't be enough to grow crops forever.  Similarly, sand tiles need to lose mass over time when used for glass.  Hauling down a few tiles worth of sand shouldn't last very long.  Really, it shouldn't last any longer than if the sand gatherers were just hauling it directly from its original source to the smelter (or sandbag stockpile).  To do otherwise would imply that the haulers can haul significantly more sand at once when moving it from one tile to another than they can when putting it in a bag and moving it like they currently do.

[Impaler[WrG]]

Actually I think we should be able to move soil into stone-floored chambers to make farm able areas, BUT the player has to soil an entire z level thick before it becomes plant-able which is going to require a LOT of hauling and a 2 zlevel high chamber.  That's going to represent a lot more work then simply flooding once with water, its probably going to be 7 sand-bag hauls per tile of soil-filling.  Such an effort really should last forever on the time scale of the game, though requiring fertilizer would be appropriate.

[CobaltKobold]

"earthworks"

[Shaostoul]

I like the idea of having to fill an entire z-level for the farming. That'd make more sense than farming right off say muddy obsidian.

And the rewatering of the soil would get annoying quick unless there was a building that allowed a small amount of water to flow instead of opening an entire floodgate.

I'd also just like to point out, it seems that the underground plants at least are mushrooms or other tiny plants... Mushrooms don't have huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge roots.

[SirHoneyBadger]

I like this idea. Not only to fill in floor material (very good point about requiring actual soil, instead of just a smear of mud on obsidian), but also to patch holes in walls, fill in caves, etc.

This would be a good reason to have some kind of cement in the game.

[Mel_Vixen]

well its the other way round. The "Mushroom" is only the "fruit" of a fungus. The fungus itself can have easily a "root" network that fills several cubic meters of earth. On the other hand you can grow around 5-10 KG of shrooms on a 50X50X50cm cube of straw.

@SHB: The romans had cement and Concrete.
It would atleast fit into the timeframe.

[Derakon]

I should note that it's a not-uncommon practice in greenhouses to just plunk down a bag of topsoil, rip a hole in the top, and then grow stuff out of the bag without bothering to pour it out or anything. Now, this is topsoil, which is going to be higher-quality than just about anything your dwarves will find, but you don't need 7/7 deep worth. Three-four feet deep, sure, that seems reasonable with occasional refreshing of the top level.

I do like the idea of hauling dirt around in bags to set up your farms, though.

[SirHoneyBadger]

Good point, Heph.

Maybe making "topsoil" (whatever that means in DF) could be a farmer job? Could use the farmer's workshop, or maybe even the Alchemist's.

Different plants could require different soil levels? Whenever I plant stuff in my garden, or plant flowers around the house, I always have to check to see how deep things are supposed to be planted. Tomato plants, for example, require 85% of the plant to be buried, for the stalks to be strong. Roses also need to be planted particularly deep.

[Impaler[WrG]]

Topsoil is created for too slowly for it to be reasonable to make it in game.

It dose bring up the point that soil is really very diverse in its quality, topsoil or potting soil is really not that deep in most places perhaps 1 z level.  But many maps will have soil 4 or more levels deep.  Perhaps this should be replaced with some kind of sub-soil or 'gravel' so on any map their is only one layer of high quality topsoil.

[SirHoneyBadger]

Well, what I meant was soil our dwarfs had gathered, and then improved by adding things like crushed charcoal, potash, pottery shards, dried leaves and vegetable matter, earthworms, stale beer, etc.

So no, not topsoil, it would need another name.

[Drake1500]

When you have accidentely dug out an extra channel, or you want to make an indoor farm, there should be a fill in designation. It would work by designating a location over a channelled area, and then you will be asked what materiel to use (sand, microline etc.) and then a dwarf with the hauling skill will start to fill in the chanelled location.
It would be easier if loam/clay left remains though (but I think this is coming).

Back to the OP, I say that the only reason to be able to fill in an area (as opposed to building a wall) is to be able to engrave said wall. But this is easily fixed by allowing walls (that have not been carved in any other way) to be allowed to be engraved, albeit with less effect than a natural wall of the same material (otherwise, why would you ever keep natural walls around?).