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[Sowelu]

http://www.arcengames.com/aiwar_features.php

This actually looks pretty cool.  It's designed to be a humans-versus-very-powerful-AI-forces game, so there's no illusion that it's balanced and plays fair.  Instead, it tries to make the AI play realistically and make reasonable tactical mistakes.  It's a space RTS.

I thought it was quite interesting playing through it.  Then I remembered that I hated RTSes.  But maybe someone else will appreciate it...

[MrWiggles]

Hmm...

It looks pretty decent. I'm skeptical of its AI claims though. These type claims have been made through the years.

Personally AI has been one of my longest standing gripes about video games. The oppenent shouldn't be solely tougher because it simply has more hit points, or does a shit load of damage. It should be harder, because it can out play me.

One of my favorite game moods with friends in Halo 3 is Juggernaught. He tougher, does more damage but damn it, the bastard playing him can surprise me.

But I'm sucker for all things RTS, so I'm checking it out regardless.

[x4000]

I thought it was quite interesting playing through it.  Then I remembered that I hated RTSes.  But maybe someone else will appreciate it...

Hi there, thanks for posting the link about the game, even though it wasn't quite to your tastes! I'm actually the dev of the game, and saw the referring link in my site logs.

Hmm...

It looks pretty decent. I'm skeptical of its AI claims though. These type claims have been made through the years.

Yeah, I know what you mean -- I've heard it before, too.  That's why I did a detailed rundown on why my AI is at least built on a completely different foundation than most games:  http://christophermpark.blogspot.com/2009/06/designing-emergent-ai-part-1.html

This approach isn't perfect, I'm sure, but it does give much better results with much less programming.  I'm not really an AI programmer, my background is in databases, but the reasoning works the same in many cases.  When most companies make claims about having great AI, at least in the RTS genre they usually tend to just have a really huge, advanced implementation of the decision tree approach.  And that always just tops out at some point or another due to the limitations of the approach.

But the proof is in the pudding! Check out the demo, and see what you think of the tactical AI.

Personally AI has been one of my longest standing gripes about video games. The oppenent shouldn't be solely tougher because it simply has more hit points, or does a shit load of damage. It should be harder, because it can out play me.

Yep, I've always had the same gripes, long before I was a dev.  The AI in my game has more ships, but they are spread out and it is limited in how it can attack you with them. So when it is attacking you, when the strategic/tactical AI is in play, it usually has a somewhat similar number of units to you (often fewer on your planets), and how it uses those is what is important.  It often has fewer guys coming into your planet, but it can wield them like a scalpel and gut your planet if you aren't careful.  Anyway, see it for yourself, if you're interested -- my talking about it isn't going to convince anyone, nor should it.

But I'm sucker for all things RTS, so I'm checking it out regardless.

Awesome, let me know what you think if you are so inclined.  I'm big on feedback, and have already been implementing feedback from various players on various boards around the net.  We do weekly free DLC releases, but I also put out links to prereleases so that people can see their suggestions in action pretty much immediately. I can't do everything, but I do everything that I can that reasonably fits with the basic game design.

[woose1]

AI....

That thing I wish developers would improve over difficulty levels instead of the amount of damage one thing does and the amount of hit-points you have?

Pinch me.

[Rilder]

Meh I never play RTS's on any difficulty except easy (unless you call Total War an RTS which it isn't)

[Jreengus]

Meh I never play RTS's on any difficulty except easy (unless you call Total War an RTS which it isn't)

Total War is a TBS/RTT, in no way could it be considered an RTS

[Rilder]

Meh I never play RTS's on any difficulty except easy (unless you call Total War an RTS which it isn't)

Total War is a TBS/RTT, in no way could it be considered an RTS

Well allot of people like to refer to it as such, annoying, I know.

[Pnx]

I know I refer to it as an RTS, but that's because the TBS stuff was just put in to give them an excuse to do the RTS stuff. Honestly, you can not tell me the TBS stuff doesn't suck. The AI for Total War is a bit sucky too.

[Mephansteras]

Looks promising! I'll have to try this one out.

Fascinating reading the AI description you linked to, x4000. I've done a lot of AI tinkering in the past and you're doing stuff that I've thought of as well. Although, I've never put any of it into a game, so you're ahead of me there.

[Jreengus]

I know I refer to it as an RTS, but that's because the TBS stuff was just put in to give them an excuse to do the RTS stuff. Honestly, you can not tell me the TBS stuff doesn't suck. The AI for Total War is a bit sucky too.

To avoid a total de-rail I'll try to make this short, there is no RTS stuff in total war it's RTT stuff the difference being that RTTs cut out the base building and unit building and give you set units to fight the enemies set units. Hence it is real time tactics as opposed strategy. Whilst the Strategy part still exists it is done turn based hence it being a TBS/RTT.


Anyhooo on topic the AI in this game sounds very interesting and I shall definitely check it out if I have the time.

[x4000]

Looks promising! I'll have to try this one out.

Awesome!

Fascinating reading the AI description you linked to, x4000. I've done a lot of AI tinkering in the past and you're doing stuff that I've thought of as well. Although, I've never put any of it into a game, so you're ahead of me there.

Yeah, I was pleased with how it turned out -- and really surprised, actually.  I had been playing other RTS games for so long, thinking "if only they added this, then the AI would be so much smarter in this situation, etc."  So it was really nice to be able to do that in my own game.  I never dreamed that the approach I wound up choosing would give such good results so quickly.  I think that's why more AI programmers have maybe not tried it, the emergent approach sounds more difficult than it really is (as far as AI goes, anyway, which is hard no matter what way you cut it).  Cool that you've been working around with AI, too!

[x4000]

To avoid a total de-rail I'll try to make this short, there is no RTS stuff in total war it's RTT stuff the difference being that RTTs cut out the base building and unit building and give you set units to fight the enemies set units. Hence it is real time tactics as opposed strategy. Whilst the Strategy part still exists it is done turn based hence it being a TBS/RTT.

My favorite part of the Total War series was actually the turn-based stuff on the outer maps, which surprised me.  I found myself just skipping the RTT parts, because I just never connected with those.  But the turn-based part had me hooked for a good while a few years back.  Good times.

Anyhooo on topic the AI in this game sounds very interesting and I shall definitely check it out if I have the time.

Great!

[Cthulhu]

If I weren't playing Dominions right now I'd try it out.  I'll get around to it before long.

[Jreengus]

Kudos x4000 for coming back and checking the thread then replying, wasn't sure whether you'd be the type of person to make a post then never come back. I'm downloading the demo now so lets see how this turns out; If it wasn't for you linking that blog I might not have tried this since I'm in the middle of exams but your description of the AI has me intrigued.

[Sowelu]

I emailed some feedback.

I spent 2-3 hours on it, which is more than I can say for any other RTS in the last four years or so.  I might poke at it a little more after work today.