Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Hyndis]

Note that you can actually build a magma pump out of wood! 

But there's a caveat.

The pump must be entirely above the level of the magma. So you will have to use two Z levels to do this. Magma only heats things up if the magma is on the tile of the item itself. In the case of the pump, that means that the blocked tile will never have magma on it because it is inaccessible, but the space where the dwarf can pump the magma is vulnerable.

So long as you keep that space free of magma, you'll be okay. Let it fill with magma, and the pump is doomed.

You can more dramatically illustrate this by using wooden floodgates to control magma.

So long as the floodgate is kept closed, it will be perfectly fine forever. However if you open it and magma flows into the floodgate square, then it will burst into flames and melt within seconds.

Basically, consider air to be a perfect insulator in the game. So long as magma is not actually touching an object, the object is safe. Otherwise dwarves would be bursting into flames when trying to use magma forges. And objects are only touching if they share the same square. Adjacent squares are adjacent, but those objects are not actually touching, thus are safe from magma.


Also, magma will evaporate at depths of 1 and 2, just like water. A 2 may turn into a 1, and a 1 may turn into a 0, so its just more noticeable if its at 1's.

[Shoku]

1. Albedo just wants people to go to the wiki so we don't see the same typical questions over and over- it's annoying after you've answered them a handful of times and the way he's viewing it there's practically a sticky thread available that gives all the basic info about magma/whatever.

2. 1/7's don't move so in order to get a 1 tile of magma you had to have a 2 glide over some 1s. This means that you can't ever get 1s further out than 2s will move to. In very long tunnels the 2s will start to come slower so you will see some minor evaporation but if you want to tell us there's a 1 wide tunnel length that won't ever fill go count how many tiles long it has to be.

3. Wooden pumps CAN and WILL burn. Sometimes within moments of activating them.
My best guess is that the ambient temperature plays a role so in hot regions above ground wooden pumps are the least safe. Underground ones have seemed to last longer but admittedly it's been some time since I made wooden pumps- I just make a magma tunnel and then use glass.

[Shaostoul]

Magma will flow as long as it is 2/7. HOWEVER!!! If it reaches 1/7 it has that chance to cool. If you have it moving a huuuuuge distance and the magma isn't filling as fast as it is draining, you will effectively lose that Z-level of magma.

I've played on glacial maps where I was melting ice with magma and accidentally filled my evaporation chambers up to all 2's with some 3's floating around. It takes longer but that evaporates too.

Hmmm, I never noticed the various swimming pools of 2/7 water I've made evaporate.

I'm making a massive magma mechanism in my current fort because it's so perfectly set up for it. Not having any issues with my oh... 200 tile long 1 tile wide thing evaporating but the magma is 30? ish tiles above where the magma is flowing.

[zchris13]

Wooden pumps take heat damage from surrounding magma, but it's very slow. Or very very fast. Depends. (Nobody knows?)

2/7 doesn't evaporate.

[Zancor Mezoran]

I would like to note that in an EXTREMELY long tunnel (e.g. about 1/3 of the way across a 16x16 map), contrary to what Albedo has stated, the magma will evaporate in a 1-wide channel.  Why?  Well, look at this scenario.

7777666666666555555555555554444444444444444444444444433333333333333333333333333333333332222222222222222222222222222222222111111111111111111

This represents the depth of magma in the channel (to scale; the channel I used was atleast 15 times larger, but probably more).  Because magma is not pressurized like water, it will not "teleport" across and quickly drain the source while filling the entire channel to the same height.  Rather, magma flows very slowly.  By the time the magma reaches the end of the tunnel, very far from the pipe, it will take quite a while for a 1/7 bit of magma to be displaced from the source all the way to the end.  This allows there to be a certain amount of evaporation of those 1/7 bits at the very end of the channel.

However, in my experience, that evaporation was not sufficient enough to halt the filling of the channel.  My channel eventually (over the course of 2 game years) filled to be about 5/7 to 6/7 throughout the channel.  I'm fairly sure that the evaporation did not significantly contribute to that length of time, and that it took so long due to the fact that the tunnel spanned 1/3 or more of the map.

[Albedo]

A 16 block embark map? Well, you got me on that one.

I've made 1-wide magma tunnels several blocks long many times and never had a problem.  In theory, evaporation certainly will kick in and stop the process at some absurdly huge distance.  But I was offering practical applications vs theory.

2/7 doesn't evaporate.

Not from normal evaporation. Any above-ground water can evaporate in hot environments, and pools used for drinking will get drunk up, which can look like the same thing.

[Shoku]

I would like to note that in an EXTREMELY long tunnel (e.g. about 1/3 of the way across a 16x16 map), contrary to what Albedo has stated, the magma will evaporate in a 1-wide channel.  Why?  Well, look at this scenario.

7777666666666555555555555554444444444444444444444444433333333333333333333333333333333332222222222222222222222222222222222111111111111111111

This represents the depth of magma in the channel (to scale; the channel I used was atleast 15 times larger, but probably more).  Because magma is not pressurized like water, it will not "teleport" across and quickly drain the source while filling the entire channel to the same height.  Rather, magma flows very slowly.  By the time the magma reaches the end of the tunnel, very far from the pipe, it will take quite a while for a 1/7 bit of magma to be displaced from the source all the way to the end.  This allows there to be a certain amount of evaporation of those 1/7 bits at the very end of the channel.

However, in my experience, that evaporation was not sufficient enough to halt the filling of the channel.  My channel eventually (over the course of 2 game years) filled to be about 5/7 to 6/7 throughout the channel.  I'm fairly sure that the evaporation did not significantly contribute to that length of time, and that it took so long due to the fact that the tunnel spanned 1/3 or more of the map.

To be realistic you should shorten the 1's. They'll only go as far as the 2's dare march out and since they can evaporate the 1's end gets effectively capped while the other sections can continue to lengthen. Eventually the 2s will be pretty long so it will take quite awhile for a 3 to meet a 1 to give you another 2 but this still shouldn't match the evaporation of the 1's.

-

I've had an evaporation room for magma filled to 2s and 3s due to poor management and it evaporated. I was screwed later when I let it go to 3s and 4s so I dug out a larger area for the stuff.

[Stargrasper]

anyways wen it comes to magma, its basically what cogsmith said, still its not so hard to avoid fire imps, actually its really simple, you should dig your furnace and let the magma get into a channe, then put a wall between the channel and the magma pipe/pool and carve a fortification in the wall, this will let the magma come in but not the creatures

I feel a need to point out that that doesn't work quite how you're thinking.  father_alexander is saying carve the wall into a fortification.  While fortifications DO allow passage of magma and DO NOT allow passage of creatures, carving the wall into a fortification won't work.  Why?  Well, the wall is probably made of obsidian...obsidian is not magma safe.  I've personally experienced this a couple times now, carving the natural obsidian wall that was holding back the magma into a fortification and as soon as the magma gets on top of it, it will melt.  Fortifications are a great idea, but you'll have to build your own magma safe one rather than carving the local stone.

[Sphalerite]

I don't think that's right.  I have in my fortresses repeatedly carved fortifications into natural walls of non-magma-safe rock to prevent fire imps and such from getting into my smelting hall.   I've never seen magma damage fortifications, no matter what they were made of.  As far as I know fortifications, like everything else built through the construction page, are immune to magma.

[Stargrasper]

I don't think that's right.  I have in my fortresses repeatedly carved fortifications into natural walls of non-magma-safe rock to prevent fire imps and such from getting into my smelting hall.   I've never seen magma damage fortifications, no matter what they were made of.  As far as I know fortifications, like everything else built through the construction page, are immune to magma.

Immune to magma until it gets on top of them.  Then I've seen them melt.

[Sphalerite]

Immune to magma until it gets on top of them.  Then I've seen them melt.

And I've seen magma flow through non-magma-safe carved fortifications and never once seen them melt.  I'll be tapping the magma pipe on my current fortress soon and watch to make sure.  Are you sure you're thinking of fortifications, and not floodgates or doors?

[Stargrasper]

Immune to magma until it gets on top of them.  Then I've seen them melt.

And I've seen magma flow through non-magma-safe carved fortifications and never once seen them melt.  I'll be tapping the magma pipe on my current fortress soon and watch to make sure.  Are you sure you're thinking of fortifications, and not floodgates or doors?

Yeah, I know I'm thinking fortifications.  I could swear I looked at the tile where I carved it and it said 'molten obsidian' or whatever that message is.  I'll concede maybe I'm incorrect, but I could have sworn I saw my fortification melt.

[Sphalerite]

Yeah, I know I'm thinking fortifications.  I could swear I looked at the tile where I carved it and it said 'molten obsidian' or whatever that message is.  I'll concede maybe I'm incorrect, but I could have sworn I saw my fortification melt.

Flowing magma will melt obsidian stones.  Could it have been a case where a stone melted, then was pushed onto the same square as the fortifications?  Or was already in the same square as the fortification, and then melted when the magma hit it?

I'll do some testing with obsidian fortifications this weekend and see what happens.

[Stargrasper]

Flowing magma will melt obsidian stones.  Could it have been a case where a stone melted, then was pushed onto the same square as the fortifications?  Or was already in the same square as the fortification, and then melted when the magma hit it?

I'll do some testing with obsidian fortifications this weekend and see what happens.

I remember looking at one of the natural obsidian walls that was already there, smoothing it and carving it into a fortification.  This negates the possibility that it was a stone that was already there unless the stone from when I dug the channel(one square away on the magma side) and the magma pushed the stone into the fortification...I suppose THAT could be possible, but I thought magma naturally moved so slowly that you'd need a pump to make it flow fast enough to glitch the game like that.  I remember thinking, "Damn, my fortification melted!"  That's the best I can come up with presuming that my fortification perhaps didn't melt...but I still kindof think it did.

Since you're planning to test it, it's kindof redundant for me to try to do the same.  I'll hold back on testing unless I happen to have a need to channel magma.  If I do, I'll let you know my results.

[eerr]

a: the creature "spawns" are limited to the area inside/next to the volcano,
b: flow can push creatures through fortifications anyway(magmamen/fire imps who investigate)
c: if we're talking magma pipe, evaporation is only a problem when trying to fill a large area from a small  channel.
1x wide into a 40x40 area is not going to fill from anything other than point-blank range.

d:fortifactions are covered by molten magma, so if they are there you can't see them without looking at the tile.

e: when filling from a magma pool, i'm not sure if creatures respawn, but either way you need to dig low into the pool depending on how far you need the magma to go (16x16 and you'll probably want 5-10 layers of magma)

f: magma does not normally flow upwards, there will be no flowing up out of the channel to cause flooding unless you use a screw pump above the channel.

g: wooden screw pumps don't light on fire-but magma has a way of damaging them so don't expect the screwpump's front end to hold back tiles of magma very long at all.

h: you can create infinite magma by filling an enclosed 1x1 tile from a screw pump at the same level in the pump, both over the magma source.
good luck powering it without bauxite or adamantium, and also not flooding your fortress.

this post was edited afterward because I wrote it carelessly.