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Author Topic: [40d11] Invaders half-hearted, break and run without fighting.  (Read 1019 times)

Dwaref

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I just had a group of elves attack my settlement. They were provoked form hiding and shot a tame Cow to death with a flurry of arrows! After that they were undecided what to do. One of them shot at one of my  fishermen a few times you can see a pair of misses and one hit in the upper screen, and gave him a brown wound in his lower arm.
Above-screen is a total of 14 additional shafts scattered above the site where they shot at the cow and the fishers. So they could shoot. But they later wouldn't. Relevant to this story is that even though i didnt kill that many of them, there were around 10 bow-elves in the initial group.
The cow and fleeing fishers dealt with, they just milled around, the whole group moving one square every once in a while.

Since all my lizardmen(innate swim, dam block 2, natural attacks, speed of 1200) are hunters(with plate) and have trained wrestling to 'wrestler'(except cripples, seen as recruits), i recruit everyone and order them stationed outside.

Well outside, all gathered and accounted for i order them over to the elves. I expect a bloodbath here.

The assigned group leader, however has fallen asleep.
I lose time, then i lose more time when half the sub-squad leaders also have gone away to do other things.
Anyway: Only three champion wrestlers, decent armor/shield/sword-users rush them in an act of suicidal insubordination. Note though that elves are almost twice as fast as my lizardmen by the raws: speed 700 vs 1200.

The fastest lizardman to get there by like a dozen squares has one elf shoot at him as he closes in, without wounding him. A meager amount of fire compared to the cow. The champ had max 1 arrow going at him at a time compared to the cow's 4 to 6.

He then plows into the main group of elves, gets entangled and cuts them up with his plain copper training sword. The other two follow suit.
During this whole encounter, i was sure i'd have a couple less champions to order around, but believe it or not, all the elves seem to flee my soldiers. After closing to melee, just one or two bowmen shot anything at all against them, and the wrestlers accompanying them just scatter. A pair of scattered shafts that were not fired at the cow, the fishermen, or the first advancing champion can be seen. There is some mild splatter by the entrance which implies someone else was hit and wounded in the gathered mass by the entrance, but it was nothing big.

The mess you see here, it was caused by three soldiers. And the killed mess is a small amount of a first attacking group. Mid-fight another group attacked, but they fled the scene quickly. There must have been 20-30 mounted elves, and they failed to wound any one of my three guys to even a light gray level.

What gives? We are in a terror/vengeance relationship, have been since i started on this map. Elves, dwarves, kobolds and goblins attack regularly(dwarves are really only duplicated kobolds, lizardmen took all the default dwarfy stuff).

I keep a log what people died from in the unit list by changing their profession after death. Even though elves attack as frequent or more frequently than goblins, goblins stand for 3/4ths of all deaths by invaders.

This stuff has been quite consistent over time, the last pair of elven ambushes havent killed anyone, and has done nothing but to present horse-meat for the butchers, and worthless bloody gear for me to sell to caravans or for lizardman to purchase.

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He is somewhat reserved. He prefers to be alone. He doesn't need thrills or risks in life. He is never optimistic or enthusiastic about anything. He has a fertile imagination. He is open-minded to new ideas. He is put off by authority and tradition. He is very straightforward with others. He is very disorganized. He thinks it is incredibly important to strive for excellence. He has very little self-discipline. He takes time when making decisions. He doesn't really care about anything anymore.

Dwaref

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Re: [40d11] Invaders half-hearted, break and run without fighting.
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2009, 04:19:25 pm »

There was a follow-up group. Mostly spearmen, no bowmen. They also scattered and fled on their horses.
My squad leader champ smashed a horse from beneath one elf, plowing on to chase other riders. He was alone at the moment since his squad was chasing dark gnomes, so the de-horsed elf ran and got away.

All the mounted elves were really skittish and refused to engage in combat. Well. Dismounted elves are also skittish like that.
I however caught one of them(in fact the one who had his horse knocked away, and was on foot) chasing one of my masons around. He had lost his spear to a stuckin in the mason's lower arm. I recruited the mason, and he proceeded to beat the tar out of the elf. He had armor, shield, but no assigned weapon(hunter).
The elf then pitifully crawled away while my guy browned and yellowed him up. Eventually a champ came along and golfed him with his sword.

So i reason that elves maybe just are cowards who only attack civilians, and flee like our guys flee from danger when a recruit comes within the 'comfort zone', allowing them to fire at targets at range.
If this is the case and it is by design, feel free to tell me so i can close the issue.
Right now, it's pretty easy to abuse by recruiting everyone when elves come-a-knocking.
I don't know how or why elves lose morale and run though.
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He is somewhat reserved. He prefers to be alone. He doesn't need thrills or risks in life. He is never optimistic or enthusiastic about anything. He has a fertile imagination. He is open-minded to new ideas. He is put off by authority and tradition. He is very straightforward with others. He is very disorganized. He thinks it is incredibly important to strive for excellence. He has very little self-discipline. He takes time when making decisions. He doesn't really care about anything anymore.

eerr

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Re: [40d11] Invaders half-hearted, break and run without fighting.
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2009, 05:16:27 pm »

I think Toady put morale in 40d.
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Footkerchief

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Re: [40d11] Invaders half-hearted, break and run without fighting.
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2009, 05:31:03 pm »

So i reason that elves maybe just are cowards who only attack civilians, and flee like our guys flee from danger when a recruit comes within the 'comfort zone', allowing them to fire at targets at range.
If this is the case and it is by design, feel free to tell me so i can close the issue.

Given that you're observing a difference between goblins and elves, it seems pretty likely that it's by design.
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Dwaref

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Re: [40d11] Invaders half-hearted, break and run without fighting.
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2009, 05:54:34 pm »

I almost forgot. Mounted elves are happy to merrily trip around civilians after they are detected.
I had a confused miner and a confused mason run around inside the group in confusion for long amounts of time at two separate incidents. So mounted elves don't seem to attack civilians, nor recruits.

Bow-elves seem to be different, in that they do attack from horseback.
The referenced groups above didnt contain any bowmen, and both dwarves escaped safely.

Goblins maybe are different in that i haven't met any mounted ones yet. I remember and can see by the logs i keep, that elves were pretty dangerous when they came at foot. They killed recruits then.

Hmm, they're probably not cowards. The elf that fled after i recruited his victim proably just had his morale break.
What i see here is that when i attack them while they're mounted, they dont fight back. And this allows me to fight them one at a time, which in turn breaks their morale and sends them packing.

Horses enable them to travel a lot faster, but shouldn't it also make them more dangerous and not less?
Right now horses seem to only help them escape the map faster.

Either it's a universal problem, which i'd like others to chime in on ; or else my modified game reacts unforseenly with mounted elves/units in melee.
I have a saved game from when last post's elves came around before they died, if it's at all any help.
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He is somewhat reserved. He prefers to be alone. He doesn't need thrills or risks in life. He is never optimistic or enthusiastic about anything. He has a fertile imagination. He is open-minded to new ideas. He is put off by authority and tradition. He is very straightforward with others. He is very disorganized. He thinks it is incredibly important to strive for excellence. He has very little self-discipline. He takes time when making decisions. He doesn't really care about anything anymore.

de5me7

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Re: [40d11] Invaders half-hearted, break and run without fighting.
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2009, 10:32:55 am »

I had  a strange incident where one of my miners was ambushed by 5 goblin wrestlers, i conscripted him, he took one swing with his pick, and all five goblins fed, with him chasing. The miner in question wasnt the greatest warrior in terms of strength or toughness.

Having said this, i had already dispatched another squad of ambushers else where on the map
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Dwaref

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Re: [40d11] Invaders half-hearted, break and run without fighting.
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2009, 11:37:38 am »

Just how i had a mother champion with a baby leave the rest of the group. She went to a 's'tation the other lizardmen had left ages ago.
Long story short, she was ambushed, kicked some ass, then had her baby hacked out of her hands.
After that she fled like a little girl!

She got her stuff together after my champion wall of lizard-flesh came barreling down to help, but before that she was getting chased around. I guess there is morale also for dwarves, it's just that i haven't seen it. Youknow, since civilians always run, battles are hectic and one-sided etc. Also it seems to be triggered by 'death'. So say a lone miner who is conscripted hasnt seen an ally die, and thus would not run.

It might be so bad that an ambush squad suffers to bring a wrestler since he dies so fast that the well-armed goblins go all 'oh shit! she killed'im, run!'.
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He is somewhat reserved. He prefers to be alone. He doesn't need thrills or risks in life. He is never optimistic or enthusiastic about anything. He has a fertile imagination. He is open-minded to new ideas. He is put off by authority and tradition. He is very straightforward with others. He is very disorganized. He thinks it is incredibly important to strive for excellence. He has very little self-discipline. He takes time when making decisions. He doesn't really care about anything anymore.

buzz killington

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Re: [40d11] Invaders half-hearted, break and run without fighting.
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2009, 09:46:24 am »

I just had some goblin ambushers definitely wimp out.  They ambushed the elf caravan and slaughtered them.  I finally got some troops out and my one marksdwarf ran way ahead.  I thought it would be the end for him as the goblins got pretty close.  He managed to shoot one down at close range, then hit another one that was like 2 squares away and the rest fled.  It would have been pretty for them to beat him as they were all melee types and within a few squares but he ended up looking like a super-dwarf as he shot them down as they ran.
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Corona688

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Re: [40d11] Invaders half-hearted, break and run without fighting.
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2009, 06:44:59 pm »

I think ambushers are more likely to flee if you kill or trap their leader.
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