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[varkarrus]

If it's insanity, it should be a temporal insanity, like Murai in that Digger webcomic.

[LegoLord]

I don't see why he'd be depressed.  I mean, he's just made one awesome sword/door/whatever.  He's getting praise from his peers.

[SirHoneyBadger]

Yeah, but geniuses and other top performers seem to have a tendancy to get depressed, even when from the outside it seems like they ought to be on top of the world.

And this is resulting from damage to their souls, rather than just a simple emotional imbalance or trauma, so it may have unforseen effects.

[LegoLord]

Yeah, but geniuses and other top performers seem to have a tendancy to get depressed, even when from the outside it seems like they ought to be on top of the world.

That's more from personal issues rather than the job done.  They are just more famous than other people with those problems, and other geniuses get less attention because people like drama more.

[SirHoneyBadger]

Yes, but all I'm suggesting is to use a real life phenomenon to explain the effects of an unknown and unknowable event, in the game, in terms we can understand.

Soul damage could = depression, by perhaps leading to more personal issues and less emotional stability.

[DG]

A site without water should be a challenge, yes. But you can't control acquisition of moods (except by refusing to expand your fortress, which is stupid). Thus, water-requiring exhaustion after moods amounts to a random death sentence on dwarves in your fortress, which you can't do anything about. You've seen how people react to the Hammerer, who does similar things even though you can manipulate him/her. This would be much worse.

I don't think that the water-for-wounded-dwarves thing will be changed until or unless brewing starts requiring water as well, which doesn't really change the dynamics any. But both of those won't be changed until you can import water in large quantities.

Then my suggestion could be dependent on water not being required for wounded or a method for water being available on all maps (be that trading or rendering down the bodies of your enemies Dune-style or whatever). But I like that this has morphed more into a suggestion of possible reactions/effects/consequences/repercussions of creating an artifact rather than just my single offering. And that's why I like the gist of SirHB's suggestion (and the rest). Let's not be too hostile to negative consequences, they'll impose more challenge. I think I'll edit my original post to make a list of them all so far.

[Impaler[WrG]]

Perhaps total unpredictability is appropriate, some dwarfs get depressed if they DONT finish an Artifact, others get depressed if they DO. 

[SirHoneyBadger]

They suddenly lose their great sense of purpose, kind of thing.

[Felblood]

--Or an elderly artisan, who has just completed his ultimate work, might just lie down for his final rest.

He could even gather his family and friends and tell them not to mourn his passing, for time has come and all that jazz, preventing this unavoidable event from leading into a tantrum spiral.

Yes, it slows population growth (it shouldn't count towards being shunned by immigrants though) but it's epically sweet and sweetly epic.

This also helps cut into the problem where advanced fortresses get inundated by legendary craftsdwarves of every stripe.

Perhaps, the more lethal variants should be reserved for larger fortresses, adding content to the late game, and preventing this from making the early years more chaotic.

Of course, young forts don't have old dwarves, so that's self implementing with my other suggestion.

[SirHoneyBadger]

Making artifacts might be dangerous, but I don't think it should be consistently mortal.

Personally, I'm for getting rid of the mechanic of Artifact creation instantly raising skill. Creating Artifacts is the reason dwarfs learn their craft, and the reward, not something they do on the way to something else.

If experience for making them is taken out, you'd reduce the amount of Legendaries (and make them more important), while changing the focus to the Artifact itself, instead of to all the masterpieces your dwarf can now randomly make for no good reason.

You'd still get the random Artifacts, just not the random boost.

[Byakugan01]

I think it makes sense; if they were able to create  one work of unparalleled craftsmanship, then they should gain the skill to pump out a multitude of lesser works at high quality. Even if the original was brought on by divine inspiration, it was still that dwarf, with their own hands, that produced it.

[Felblood]

I could get behind the artifact XP award being dialed back to as little as 50% of what it is now.

Perhaps, this could be blended together with having diverse random effects for artifact creation.

I addition to possibly being exhausted or even dying, the XP reward for artifact creation could be randomized. Again, this prevents players from becoming dependent on free Legends, and encourages them to train immigrants beyond dabbling in the mid-game stage.

The potential for free Legends should remain, but it shouldn't be something we can count on to supply half of our manufacturing power. This will also make possessed dwarves less pitiful compared to the other funny moods, especially if they now get a random (but still relatively small) xp award of their own.

[Derakon]

I don't know about you, but I've never counted on artifacts for anything. Most of my dwarves get trained up the hard way. If I do get a free legendary -- I had the good luck of a migrant armorer going fey in my most recent fort, for example -- then of course I'll take advantage of it, but I don't count on it. Prior to him showing up, I'd planned on using my Proficient armorer (one of my starting seven) to supply the military.

[Pilsu]

Making artifacts might be dangerous, but I don't think it should be consistently mortal.

Personally, I'm for getting rid of the mechanic of Artifact creation instantly raising skill. Creating Artifacts is the reason dwarfs learn their craft, and the reward, not something they do on the way to something else.

If experience for making them is taken out, you'd reduce the amount of Legendaries (and make them more important), while changing the focus to the Artifact itself, instead of to all the masterpieces your dwarf can now randomly make for no good reason.

You'd still get the random Artifacts, just not the random boost.

What would that practically mean? That only skilled artisans get strange moods since they have the skill to actually make the artifact? Aside from possessions of course, ghosts of the past coming back to finish their life's work

Personally I'd make Master+ dwarves get moods and gain Legendary status from it, sounds about right. Legendary +whatever seem kind of frivolous seeing it's not displayed

[SirHoneyBadger]

That sounds good to me, Pilsu. It makes sense that the reason they're "Legendary" in the first place is because they forged an Artifact, after first learning how to forge lesser equipment over a period of years and years.

Jumping from Dabbling to Legendary in one go is just kooky, to me. Even if they still forge an Artifact early on, maybe it would just increase their potential, so that the Artifact-maker could cross into Legendary territory, rather than stopping at Grand Master?

For that matter, maybe Legendary weapon users could have to slay a semi-megabeast/megabeast/high ranking enemy, to achieve that status, or something.