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[LegoLord]

Zangi, stolen property can be returned.  A severed limb does not return it, and the limb cannot be regrown if it turns out the person accused isn't guilty.  Your fantasy world is one in which people would live in constant fear of being accused of stealing, and as a result, losing life or limb.  It's the kind of place a sociopath would love.  If you grew up in it, you probably wouldn't feel that way about the idea.

[Cthulhu]

What happens to a criminal once he's arrested is of no consequence to me.  If someone breaks into my house, something sharp is going to be inserted into his torso, be it bullet, knife, piece of wood, doesn't matter.

[Gorjo MacGrymm]

Consequences:  Gotta love'em!

[Strife26]

Similar to Cthulu, if I found someone in my house, he'd shortly get hurt. Depending on what I had close at hand, it could be a couple of small holes, a few big gashes, or if he got REALLY unlucky a .357 magnum through his head. I'd shoot to kill. However, Castle cluases (you can blast someone if you're threatened) do not apply to chaps who are incapacitated.

At the same time, let's say that I've plugged my burgler with a couple of .22 bullets. A .22 won't kill you instantly most of the time. I'm going to keep that rifle pointed at him and move right next to him, kicking away any guns he may or may not have. If he reaches for a weapon, I'll plug him, if he's down or not. If the guy is messily bleeding out on my carpet and no longer dangerous, I'll wait for the sheriff (and ambulance, and neighbors with shotguns).

I'd be fine it our overkilling shooter was locked up for 10 years or so, it was still a heat-of-the-moment thing.

[inaluct]

I'd be fine it our overkilling shooter was locked up for 10 years or so, it was still a heat-of-the-moment thing.

The guy should get the death penalty. Or life in prison.

[Strife26]

Does that apply to anyone who accidentally kills someone? Or just when it's done with a gun?

Oh, and:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

OJ?

[inaluct]

The point is that the guy shot the thief multiple times after he had already brought him down. If someone just shoots a robber and kills them, fine. If they shoot a robber and then walk up and pull an execution style shooting, they're a murdered.

Oh, woops. I just read more of the article. The guy who got killed was some sort of silly negro, puttin' on airs. It ain't right for them negroes to be walking around like they's citiczens. I' tain't right. This feller was just delivering some good Oklahoma justice, like the Imperial Wizards recommend and like all good white folk- AAARRRRGHH I HATE OKLAHOMA

You guys are like Texas, only about a million times worse. When I was little, one of the places my family stayed in for a while was in Kansas. Man, I am so glad we left, or I'd be in walking distance of Oklahoma. All the states on the interior of the continent are tiny. I can cross some of them in a few steps. Little states. Horrible little states. Like Oklahoma.

[Strife26]

I can never tell if you're trolling or not, honestly Inaluct.

Is it just me?

[Toady One]

Inaluct has been muted for 3 days for trolling.

[Strife26]

I didn't mean that. It was just an honest question . . .

[Jetman123]

One does not SHOOT a HARMLESS PERSON.

When someone COLLAPSES TO THE GROUND, you STOP SHOOTING.

STOPPING an assailant does not mean KILLING him. It means STOPPING HIM. Once he is STOPPED from causing harm, you stop too.

It's people like this that give responsible gun owners a really, really bad name.

[Yanlin]

Bullet science:

Bullets don't kill instantly. They may knock you unconscious and then you bleed to death. Apart from a headshot which renders you brain dead. Shooting a man in the heart is a fast and PAINFUL way to make them choke to death on the inside. Not to mention the internal bleeding.

Lungs are a safer bet. A person can still live with one lung and generally, the shot lung could probably be fixed. The bleeding would leave him alive for quite some time. Enough to weaken him considerably so you could overpower him. Be sure to call for am ambulance. You don't want the robber to die. You only want him arrested.

But if the robber has a gun... Well you have a problem. You have to catch them off guard. Practice quick draws with accurate efficiency. As long as you can shoot him when he's not pointing the gun directly at you, you'll be fine. If he doesn't know you have a gun, good.

A good trick would be to make them look another way for a moment. Make them search for valuables in a drawer somewhere nearby. He will probably try to not take his eyes off you. But you should be able to safely shoot him in the torso once or twice. After you shot him, RUN towards him and grab his gun! Redirect it if you can and threaten him with your gun (And his if possible) as HARD AS YOU FUCKING CAN. Make him fear for his damn life and regret ever LOOKING at your house.

Arrest him, basically. Make him give you his gun. (Not drop it) Then toss it as far away as you can. Don't worry. Only extremely old guns go off from impact with the ground like that. If you're scared, put it in your underwear or something. Unless your genitalia can pull the trigger, you'll be safe.

Now make him lie, face first, on the ground. Hold his hands together BEHIND HIS BACK and hold his face down. Don't forget to keep pointing the gun at his head.

Now he may try to wriggle himself free, but that's normal. Just keep him like that until the ambulance arrives. Wake up ABSOLUTELY EVERYBODY YOU CAN. Have them look directly at the robber and make the robber see them. If he tries anything, he's gangbanged.

Of course if he pulls a fast one and somehow shoots you... Remember... Most of them don't know the fact that you don't just drop dead when shot. Hell many new cops get shot when the perp doesn't fall down when shot.

Just keep him waiting for the ambulance and stay threatening throughout the whole procedure. Punch them a few times if you want. As long as they stay alive...

D'oh. Forgot to mention. Call both the ambulance AND the cops.

The cops will probably arrive first and properly arrest him. Just be sure to tell them that you've overpowered the perp and "arrested" him yourself. So they don't try to arrest you instead of him! This ACTUALLY HAPPENED. I'm not joking here. People HAVE been arrested like that.

[mainiac]

Morality is not about what you have an excuse for.  It's about acting in a decent fashion.

The fact that someone is robbing you, or threatening you or otherwise harming you does mean you have a blank check to pretend they aren't human anymore.  They are human and you no more have a right to murder them then you did before.

It's understandable to protect yourself.  But killing someone because you can get away with it is murder.  It doesn't matter if you can get away with it because you hid the body or because you live in a community that doesn't care.  Harming someone because you can is still assault.

Self defense is naturally a matter where the laws can't be clear.  Too many complicating factors.  However your duty as a human being is very clear.  Harming others is something to be avoid when possible.  Killing them is even worse.  Mugging someone is bad, but not as bad as these things.  Yes, there's uncertainties, but maintain some perspective.

Why are you looking at the splinter in your brothers eye when you should be worried about the wooden plank in your own?

[Yanlin]

See, normal people don't kill because it's fun or because they can get away with it. There's an emotion called anger and one called fear.

Anger will mean the guy being robbed will want some sort of revenge. He cannot control it. Science has proven it. The guy being robbed, will want the robber to pay for threatening him and his family. Not to mention possible theft.

Fear will mean... The robber is still dangerous while he's alive. The guy being robbed doesn't want to take any chances.

From what I hear in this thread, the guy being robbed EXECUTED the robber. That IS murder. But not 1st degree. 2nd degree at best. Manslaughter if he can somehow prove the robber was extremely dangerous.

I am NOT justifying this man. He is clearly a murderer. But you cannot just put a tarp definition over all self defense cases!

You can, however, instill tarp laws. For example, if the man is genuinely not supposed to be in your house, you have every right to kill him in self defense and defense of life. ESPECIALLY if he's armed!

Remember. It's all about deterrents. If the robber knows he's in for major carp if he gets caught... Well... Bam. No robbery. Especially if it's hard to avoid being caught. But he HAS to KNOW this. Signs are good. "Forget about the dog. Beware the owner!"

Publicly flaunted alarm systems with those signs that say "This house is secured by X" and such.

Clearly displayed locks on the windows and doors. High grade doors. A fake camera. An alarm is a must.

Now stupid robbers will try and get caught. But most robbers are NOT idiots. They PLAN their attacks and go for WEAK targets. If you're not weak, you will not be robbed.

[Muz]

Plenty of people die from simple bullets. Not always intentional. Not always. But it happens a lot.

Grabbing weapons or quickdraws are pretty much a dumb idea unless you're highly trained in it. Any real policeman with enough experience in armed robberies will tell you that the safest thing you can do is to give them what they want. And this is from the elite policemen who can break ribs with a punch or shoot someone 100 yards away. "Self defense" is only recommended when the robber is planning to kidnap you or use you as a hostage, where he's likely to kill you anyway.

The problem with shooting an armed thief that that you're faaar more likely to get shot first.