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[aoanla]

I'm trying to make (playable) frost elementals, as a sort of mirror to the SoF that exist already.

I have

[COLDDAM_POINT:-1000]
and
[FIXED_TEMP:1]
in their creature definition, so they should (I think) have an aura of cold around them, and be basically immune to any normal levels of cold in the game.
When I gen a world and start as one, though, I invariably start on a glacier, get spammed with messages about other members of my civ dying, and then spammed with "You are freezing" messages before dying.

What stupid mistake am I making?

[varkarrus]

You can't have negetive numbers. And a value of 1 is below absolute zero. See the wiki on DF temperature.

[Untelligent]

Fixed temp also prevents you from being affected by temperatures anyway.

I don't think being below absolute zero is causing any errors, though. Just get rid of that COLDDAMN_POINT tag and you should be alright.

[aoanla]

Indeed, I know that a value of 1 is below absolute zero. I just thought I'd see what stupidly cold fixed points did...

In fact, simply removing [COLDDAM_POINT] didn't work - and then I realised that I'd left [STANDARD_FLESH] in, too. Removing that seems to work.
Now, my guys only fall over and drop everything they're carrying when they start, rather than freezing to death (I'm playing with non-standard body designs as well, but I have several organs listed as [GRASP] and [STANCE] so I'm not sure why they can't stand up or hold things...)

(This brings up a point of confusion though: the world generator uses a scale from -1000 to 1000, or whatever, for its potential temperature range. I was already assuming that this is not DF temperature scale, since it's absurdly narrow to be that, but I have no idea what the actual scale is...)

[Neruz]

(This brings up a point of confusion though: the world generator uses a scale from -1000 to 1000, or whatever, for its potential temperature range. I was already assuming that this is not DF temperature scale, since it's absurdly narrow to be that, but I have no idea what the actual scale is...)

I suspect each unit may actually be DF temperature units, but scaled so that 0 is about 30 or so dwarf degrees below freezing.

Mostly because if i change the max temp to ~30 i get almost no areas that aren't cold or freezing, and it you put the minimum temp above ~30 you get no freezing areas (but some cold ones).


It's a pretty imprecise way to measure it though, i'm sure there's a better way.

[aoanla]

Hm. Interesting - that explains why I get lots of deserts with my default settings

On further thought about my creatures, I still think they're taking damage somehow - after they fall over (which they do immediately upon starting), if I look at the wounds they have, although all body parts are white, I can also see internal bodyparts in the list (but white, also).
This suggests that there's some kind of instantaneous systemic damage being done immediately upon appearing (and this happens after Travel too)?

I've tried increasing the FIXED_POINT to absolute zero, which doesn't change anything. Neither does reintroducing COLDDAM_POINT at a small but positive value (around 100) with FIXED_POINT at 9508.
Any ideas? Am I barking up the wrong tree?
My creature body design is like:

[BODY:XENIAN]
[BP:US:uppershell][UPPERBODY][SIGHT]
[BP:LB:lowershell][[CON:UB]LOWERBODY][SIGHT]
[BP:UFT:upper first tentacle][CON:UB][liMB][SIGHT]
[BP:LFT:lower first tentacle][CON:UFT][liMB][SIGHT]
[BP:EFT:end first tentacle][CON:LFT][GRASP][SIGHT][SMELL][MOUTH]
[BP:UST:upper second tentacle][CON:UB][liMB][SIGHT]
[BP:LST:lower second tentacle][CON:UST][liMB][SIGHT]
[BP:EST:end second tentacle][CON:LST][GRASP][SIGHT][SMELL][MOUTH]
[BP:UTT:upper third tentacle][CON:UB][liMB][SIGHT]
[BP:LTT:lower third tentacle][CON:UTT][liMB][SIGHT]
[BP:ETT:end third tentacle][CON:LTT][GRASP][SIGHT][SMELL][MOUTH]
[BP:UFL:upper first leg][CON:LB][liMB]
[BP:LFL:lower first leg][CON:UFL][STANCE]
[BP:USL:upper second leg][CON:LB][liMB]
[BP:LSL:lower second leg][CON:USL][STANCE]
[BP:UTL:upper third leg][CON:LB][liMB]
[BP:LTL:lower third leg][CON:UTL][STANCE]
[BP:UFK:upper first kernel][CON:UB][INTERNAL][THOUGHT]
[BP:USK:upper second kernel][CON:UB][INTERNAL][THOUGHT]
[BP:UTK:upper third kernel][CON:UB][INTERNAL][THOUGHT]
[BP:LFK:lower first kernel][CON:LB][INTERNAL][THOUGHT]
[BP:LSK:lower second kernel][CON:LB][INTERNAL][THOUGHT]
[BP:LTK:lower third kernel][CON:LB][INTERNAL][THOUGHT]


(hmm. Even more suspiciously, I get "You have no free graspers" when I try to pick stuff up, even though all the grasping body parts are white. I can swim perfectly well, though... and, surprisingly with a FIXED_TEMP of 9508, the water stays water when I do.)

(Aha. Of course, only now do I spot the typo in the LOWERBODY tag...)

[varkarrus]

I think you need organs and stuff.

[zchris13]

Compare against a default creature with a nonstandard bodytype.

[Earthquake Damage]

(This brings up a point of confusion though: the world generator uses a scale from -1000 to 1000, or whatever, for its potential temperature range. I was already assuming that this is not DF temperature scale, since it's absurdly narrow to be that, but I have no idea what the actual scale is...)

I suspect each unit may actually be DF temperature units, but scaled so that 0 is about 30 or so dwarf degrees below freezing.

Mostly because if i change the max temp to ~30 i get almost no areas that aren't cold or freezing, and it you put the minimum temp above ~30 you get no freezing areas (but some cold ones).


It's a pretty imprecise way to measure it though, i'm sure there's a better way.

DF uses two different temperature scales.  The worldgen one is different from the gameplay one.  I don't know how the worldgen one works, so I leave it alone.  The scale used during play, however, should be covered by the DF wiki (roughly Fahrenheit scale, but with freezing at 10000;  valid range from 0 to 65534, with 65535 being NONE aka "not applicable" IIRC -- I could be wrong, so check the wiki page).  Creature temperature data uses this scale.

[aoanla]

I think you need organs and stuff.

Nope, no organs needed.

What turned out to be wrong was that there were two typos - the LOWERBODY tag was badly formed, which made the legs not work because the BP they were attached to was broken; the uppershell was labelled 'US', but I'd attached things to it as 'UB', so the arms (most importantly) weren't attached to anything.
Taken together, this resulted in non-functional GRASP and STANCE body parts. Fixing the two typos solved the problem.

[Neruz]

(This brings up a point of confusion though: the world generator uses a scale from -1000 to 1000, or whatever, for its potential temperature range. I was already assuming that this is not DF temperature scale, since it's absurdly narrow to be that, but I have no idea what the actual scale is...)

I suspect each unit may actually be DF temperature units, but scaled so that 0 is about 30 or so dwarf degrees below freezing.

Mostly because if i change the max temp to ~30 i get almost no areas that aren't cold or freezing, and it you put the minimum temp above ~30 you get no freezing areas (but some cold ones).


It's a pretty imprecise way to measure it though, i'm sure there's a better way.

DF uses two different temperature scales.  The worldgen one is different from the gameplay one.  I don't know how the worldgen one works, so I leave it alone.  The scale used during play, however, should be covered by the DF wiki (roughly Fahrenheit scale, but with freezing at 10000;  valid range from 0 to 65534, with 65535 being NONE aka "not applicable" IIRC -- I could be wrong, so check the wiki page).  Creature temperature data uses this scale.

Further experimentation has revealed that the point wherein water instantly vapourises is approximately ~200 worldgen dwarf degrees, and the point wherin creatures instantly catch fire is approximately ~350 worldgen dwarf degrees.

These are very approximate; give or take 30 worldgen dwarf degrees.

[Leafsnail]

So do you now lead trails of ice and freeze enemies to death just by go near them?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

And what happens if you tangle with an SoF?