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Author Topic: Haven and Hearth  (Read 212429 times)

narskie

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Re: Haven and Hearth
« Reply #1875 on: July 17, 2009, 04:54:59 pm »

Oh cool... I had no idea there were npc bandits.  THis game just keeps surprising me.  And yes, he probably would kill me, all my sp are in crafting type skills so far.  Where is everyone settled?  (Not that it would matter much since I don't really know where I've settled)
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sonerohi

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Re: Haven and Hearth
« Reply #1876 on: July 17, 2009, 06:44:44 pm »

We should design the perfect fort for the next map.

Room for 50 people, and everything needed for them.

I only figured out how to accomadate 46 people behind a brick wall, with a tile to pixel ratio.



Map key:
Black=brick wall
Green(light)=grass field
Green(dark)=Steel gate
Brown squares=cabin
Brown dots=finery forge
Light pink=smelter
The tan block by the smelters = mine
Tan blocks up top=two huge wheat fields
Dark yellow block up top=tea field
Purple block up top=grape field
Orange block, lower left=carrot field
Light purple block, lower left=Flax/Hemp field
Tan squares on left wall=kilns
Light blue squares by left wall = ovens
Orange 2x2 blocks = a tree
Grey = road
Red bar = town idol
Light blue line = a normal fence.

The idea is that, hopefully, we would be able to place banners intermittently alongisde the roads and inbetween cabins in order to extend the village reach throughout the whole complex. Claims wouldn't be needed, because if a person is willing and able to take out a brick wall and stroll through the super town, a claim won't stop them. Fields would be one of two communal things, in order to keep the community netted together out of need for feed, if nothing else (Currently, BN has split into just a loose coalition of tens of self sufficient farmhouses). The mining industry is all closely packed, with steel making being done at the workers discretion inside their cabin.

The common field around the idol would probably be used to accomodate any immigrant overflow, with it serving as a public forest area until needed for the above task. The fenced in field on the right would be for once animal herding is in, to serve as a communal pasture, keeping food public again to ensure cooperation through mutual food gain. The seperate, upper left complex would be for the 'nobles'. There isn't really much room for them to actually do much away from the town, but it affords extra security to the people that matter the most.

It may seem a little less than ideal to some people, but I can already guess the three biggest complaints.

"I won't get to have a claim!!!"
Why do you need one? To protect your stuff? People stealing on land owned by the city already leave scents, and if your neighbors are going around nicking things, the Hirdsmen can do a search and sieze, and we can evict the untrustworthy people.

"I won't get my own field!!!"
Why do you need your own field? I really want this one to actually be answered, because I don't know why people can't just use the city fields and have the courtesy to replant.

"The village leaders get better lodgings!!!"
As well they should. First of all, they're more important given that the city loses function if one of them dies, so we need to keep them alive. Also, they need a place to be able to chill out without public disruptance. Currently, we have people consistently using Hamel's Wall Removal Service, which is fine and dandy given that he is the only one really with the strength to do it, but. Do you think he really enjoys dragging himself out of stuff all the time?

Edit: Forgot to actually put up the blueprint  :-\.
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I picked up the stone and carved my name into the wind.

DJ

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Re: Haven and Hearth
« Reply #1877 on: July 17, 2009, 06:55:59 pm »

I don't know, I'm not really eager to revert to communism. I've never had a single bar of cast iron till we introduced economy.
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Urist, President has immigrated to your fortress!
Urist, President mandates the Dwarven Bill of Rights.

Cue magma.
Ah, the Magma Carta...

sonerohi

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Re: Haven and Hearth
« Reply #1878 on: July 17, 2009, 06:58:57 pm »

It wouldn't be completely communistic. It's not a "You harvest wheat for the motherland" sort of thing. It's a "Go ahead and harvest for yourself in this predesignated area, and please be courteous enough to replant". The same with any animals you herd in. I'm assuming we will be able to breed our flocks, so it'd be courtesy to slay non-pregnant animals and try to get one knocked up to replace the dead one. Houses would be your property, and if you have reason to believe someone took your valuables, you simply tell the hirdsmen and they'd launch an investigation.
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I picked up the stone and carved my name into the wind.

DJ

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Re: Haven and Hearth
« Reply #1879 on: July 17, 2009, 07:07:39 pm »

Nah, I like having my own crops around my house. Saves a lot of time when you don't have to walk far to the field or the ovens from your home. We need a bigger wall.
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Urist, President has immigrated to your fortress!
Urist, President mandates the Dwarven Bill of Rights.

Cue magma.
Ah, the Magma Carta...

Malicus

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Re: Haven and Hearth
« Reply #1880 on: July 17, 2009, 07:07:50 pm »

Okay, if people are actually awake now...  I need some dwarfy deforestation up at my place.  I'll show you where, I just want people to show up to DO it.  You can take all the wood you cut.
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sonerohi

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Re: Haven and Hearth
« Reply #1881 on: July 17, 2009, 07:14:09 pm »

Nah, I like having my own crops around my house. Saves a lot of time when you don't have to walk far to the field or the ovens from your home. We need a bigger wall.

It'd be impossible to pre-plan a town that accomadate desires like that. If you want everyone satisfied, you need to build a town progressively, like BN was built. Which results in a sprawling, disorganized mess that still sticks together.

If you want a planned town, that is confined and crisply done, then people will never be quite happy with how it works, but at least it will work.
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I picked up the stone and carved my name into the wind.

Labs

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Re: Haven and Hearth
« Reply #1882 on: July 17, 2009, 07:23:54 pm »

Damn, I need to get playing this again. Im logging on now. Need to find the town first. =\
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Duke 2.0

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Re: Haven and Hearth
« Reply #1883 on: July 17, 2009, 07:44:18 pm »

 Idea for supertown: Alright, take out all things needed for housing. That entire block will be used for public industry. Just cram as many different industries in there as economically possible. The space outside the walls will be for housing, with an option for pre-planned roads for town blocks.
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DJ

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Re: Haven and Hearth
« Reply #1884 on: July 17, 2009, 07:54:21 pm »

Yeah. We don't have to all be crammed into a single perimeter wall. In fact, this is much less secure, as a single breach compromises security of the whole village. I think housing blocks is the right idea, as it's the most extensible form of town development. Only problem with the blocks we have now is that they're not standardized and haven't been built with walls in mind. Any Caesar 3 player up to designing the most efficient housing block? :p
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Urist, President has immigrated to your fortress!
Urist, President mandates the Dwarven Bill of Rights.

Cue magma.
Ah, the Magma Carta...

Detrevni|inverteD

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Re: Haven and Hearth
« Reply #1885 on: July 17, 2009, 08:13:57 pm »

In Bottleneck all I ever really did was harvest and bake, whilst helping others. I don't really see the point in building up your stocks on your own and being successful by yourself if it's all going to come back to being nothing at some point, anyway. I prefer my experience to be helping people and being social to reach a bigger goal as a team. I feel it's more rewarding to be a part of a community that works as a unit and looks out for each other.

Ofcourse, that's just my opinion. The matter is completely subjective to ones own taste.
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sonerohi

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Re: Haven and Hearth
« Reply #1886 on: July 17, 2009, 08:39:02 pm »

Well, I gave the plan my shot. Where's everyone else designs?  :P.
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I picked up the stone and carved my name into the wind.

DJ

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Re: Haven and Hearth
« Reply #1887 on: July 17, 2009, 09:18:42 pm »

The problem with communism is that it works great in small communities, but breaks apart for large villages. If we want to make the village prosper we need to accept non-B12 immigrants too. Problem is, how do you know which to trust? Well, with valuables distributed across the whole village, with a separate wall around each block of housing, we can trust anyone, because worst that can happen is that one block gets robbed, and then the other blocks prop it up again.
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Urist, President has immigrated to your fortress!
Urist, President mandates the Dwarven Bill of Rights.

Cue magma.
Ah, the Magma Carta...

dei

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Re: Haven and Hearth
« Reply #1888 on: July 17, 2009, 09:22:59 pm »

Anyone online tonight around 8 PM - 10 PM GMT - 8? I want to try this game again in a bit, and if someone could help explain this game to me, that would be nice.

Otherwise, I may just say fuck it and not try it again. Seriously, I don't like games without at least some form of documentation/FAQ/tutorial that makes sense. And if someone cannot explain this game to me or be online to help, then it's not worth playing.

Sorry to sound emo or pissy, but meh, it's bloody 100 degrees inside my house and I can barely afford to feed myself this month.
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ArPharazon

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Re: Haven and Hearth
« Reply #1889 on: July 17, 2009, 09:40:14 pm »

Well, I gave the plan my shot. Where's everyone else designs?  :P.

I'd vote for your plan even if just for the sheer awesomeness of a nice, orderly design. Really, one always has to keep in mind the importance of aesthetics. Also, there's something to be said for the efficiency of everything in one place design. If everyone baked and planted properly we'd have way more food than we need, and for that reason even if some people don't do their part we'll still manage to have enough.

While DJ's proposal sounds like a fair compromise, how about we keep this design except with maybe 30 houses inside, and allow anyone who wants to settle a block adjacent to the walls? If you regulate the size and shape of blocks allowed you'd prevent a lot of the sprawl, and there will always be a few commies who decide to stick inside.

Btw, DJ, aren't we already a small community?

Also, it seems the server died or something. I logged back on but nobodys's online. Are you coming folks?
« Last Edit: July 17, 2009, 09:44:26 pm by ArPharazon »
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