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[Kogan Loloklam]

Here we test perceptions of indefinite incarceration, to find out where people stand. We'll test different scenarios every few days and discuss them to see what people think. Sound good? I hope so. Now...

First Question.
The Pentagon claimed today that 5% of the detainees released from prison return to terrorism. How they define terrorism, I don't know. Let's assume it means they are flying planes into buildings and blowing up school buses worse case stuff though, and assume the 5% is a dead on figure.
Here is the guts, do you believe that this justifies the indefinite detention of the detainees, knowing that if they are released, there is a 5% chance they will go become terrorists again, possibly crashing a plane into a building you or a loved one is in?

[Sowelu]

False dichotomy, there are other options between "keep them forever" and "let them go back and be terrorists".  Surely there are.  I don't know what they are, but there's got to be some way of just keeping them under better surveillance, right?

...Even if there's not, and those really ARE the two options.  No, it's not justified to keep them confined.  Mostly because it's not effective.  I believe that the best way in the LONG run to reduce the threats to our security, is to let these ones go.  Only one in 20 is pissed off enough to attack us for holding them like that?  Hey, that's pretty darn good.  If we didn't hold them for as long as we did the number might have been lower, and if we held them for longer, maybe it would have been higher, or other people would have attacked us because we kept holding them.  Let's work on reducing the number of people who want to attack us at all.

[LegoLord]

I agree with Sowelu.  5% is not enough to justify this at all.  Besides, sometimes they end up getting the wrong person.  There was some incident awhile back, I think it was in Georgia, in which several people were accused of terrorism and locked away for quite some time, no trial or phone call.  When someone finally looked at it, several of these people didn't have anything on them justifying the arrest.

[DJ]

"It is better to let a hundred guilty go than to punish a single innocent."

Or something like that. I don't know the exact phrasing in English.

[Muz]

"It is better to let a hundred guilty go than to punish a single innocent."

Oh, come now, certainly DF players can't believe that

Incarceration isn't exactly good in the first place, since you're wasting money putting away and taking care of people who are less than useless to the world. Terrorism isn't a serious enough threat to that, the worst case in history only killed a few thousand people, which is nothing compared to the amount lost to cancer and diseases. I'd much rather a country put the money into health care and education, than waste that on incarcerating people.

And America, of all countries, needs more money put in health and education. I'm still a little annoyed that a country with so much money won't even provide proper wages, health care, and decent college fees. Many other countries provide it for life, even to foreigners.

[DJ]

Watch what you're saying, that's borderline commie-sympathising.

[Ultimuh]

that's borderline commie-sympathising.

oh how many times I have heard/read an american say something similar. 

No ofense meant tough.

[DJ]

None taken. I was in fact just making fun of such people.

[Floirt]

Bleh. As long as they have served ther sentences, they can go. Since in that case that time is infinite, they stay in prison. That is all. Unless for course there is the problem of old age and health problems, then it this case they can go out too.

I don't really see the question here. If their imprisonement is indefinite, why even bother ASKING this question? Why even  people are released, if they are serving an indefinite sentence? I really don't understand your question here.

Anyways, they were judged in a trial, so if they were sentenced for prison for life, then that's it.

[DJ]

The problem is, a lot of them are being held without trial.

[Sowelu]

Bleh. As long as they have served ther sentences, they can go. Since in that case that time is infinite, they stay in prison. That is all. Unless for course there is the problem of old age and health problems, then it this case they can go out too.

I don't really see the question here. If their imprisonement is indefinite, why even bother ASKING this question? Why even  people are released, if they are serving an indefinite sentence? I really don't understand your question here.

Anyways, they were judged in a trial, so if they were sentenced for prison for life, then that's it.

You are confusing 'indefinite' with 'infinite'.  'Indefinite' means 'not defined'.  If you catch a kid shoplifting, and chuck him in prison saying maybe you'll hold him for three hours, maybe overnight, maybe longer if you find out he ran with a bad crowd, then that is an indefinite detention.  It doesn't mean he'll never serve his time.

Our legal system says you shouldn't do that.

[Zangi]

Knowing that the person has a chance of going off and committing terrorism?  But, can't really prove it?  Yea.  It goes against our justice system.

There is no magic bullet.  Nothing that everyone will be happy with.  Its a quagmire.  Some, if not all of these people will kill themselves, just to kill others to further their own cause.  Or so they perceive.

The first step... is to understand.  To think like them.  Know your enemy.  Know why they think like that.  Why they believe such things.
Then, propaganda, in its base terms.  Drill into em a 'suitable' alternative.  Suitable as in a lesser 'evil'... and as something even the extremists would think a decent alternative.

Face it, plans are so much easier to implement and enact when there is no need to plan on escaping or surviving...  Which makes terrorism much much more accessible to the common nut. 
Seriously, look at the shootings/rampages you see on the news in the past months.  How many of those people have been coming out alive lately?  Look at Columbine. You get it?
What if these extremists start to get that idea?  It would be so freaking common.  Its easy mode in the game of Jihadist.

That is what I figure as the biggest threat factor.  It needs to be changed.  'Dying' for Allah needs to be looked at in a different way.  People need some place to go back to at the end of the day.

Oh yea, I don't approve of indefinite incarceration...  But, seeing how stupidly political things can be with the government, they will never approve a viable alternative.  Nor will anyone be likely to approve of a bigger budget at this time...  Even if its to fix the terrorism thing in the long run. 

[Kogan Loloklam]

Okay, Interesting Discussion so far, but it appears to have died off
let's move on.

Second question...
1997 the U.S. Supreme Court upheld the constitutionality of the use of a civil commitment process to continue the confinement of sexually violent criminal offenders who are found to have a "mental abnormality" that causes them to pose a danger to others, even if they are not found to have a "mental illness."
Here are the guts, do you believe that a Sexually Violent person should be committed by the state to a indefinite timeframe for "treatment" for their sexually deviant behavior, held until a qualified psychiatrist verifies they are "cured"?

[Strife26]

Nope. They should be shot.

Or in nicer terms, mental health problems should not be a factor in releasing someone early. It can however, be a factor in keeping them longer. If they are violently sexual in prison, feel free to 'lose' the key. Do not, however, let them out early if they're 'cured.'

[LegoLord]

Nope. They should be shot.

Or in nicer terms, mental health problems should not be a factor in releasing someone early. It can however, be a factor in keeping them longer. If they are violently sexual in prison, feel free to 'lose' the key. Do not, however, let them out early if they're 'cured.'

That horribly contradicts everything the U.S. justice system stands for.  These are people with an illness.  They deserve treatment for it as they deserve to be able to live a normal life.  Besides, if you lose a key and all else fails, you get a locksmith.