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[Byakugan01]

Thing is, you want the weight of a pick axe to be focused on the point-part of the reason why it's so narrow (a axe blade would alter the center of gravity dramatically, as far as i know). I say keep picks and axes separate, personally-mining is in actuality dangerous enough without having to worry about accidentally chopping your arm/leg off, and practically you would effectively double the metal requirement for pick axes. Also, miners work underground while woodcutters work above ground (typically, and cave rivers and pools aren't everywhere)-you would loose time on both sets of work. Besides, that pointy end is really all you need to put down pretty much anything underground short of a giant cavespider (and berserk dwarves? One swing, one kill. Ditto for a freaking hippo, though that was mutual annihilation). And unless you actually bothered to train your miner dwarf as an axedwarf, the axe would give them no edge in battle. That's the way it is with woodcutters. And do you really want to worry about your woodcutters getting cave adapted? From my point of view at least, I don't think it's practical. Cool, but impractical. We'd have to be able to mod the professions before giving it a try, if you ask me.

[uttaku]

Maybe we need a Discworld mod...

you sir are a genuis i'll start work on it right away.

[NWTreeOctopus]

In Discworld if you dug too deep would you fall through and land on Great A'Tuin?  Granted, you'd still die I'm sure... but perhaps with epic amounts of rope something could be worked out.

[Aldaris]

In Discworld if you dug too deep would you fall through and land on Great A'Tuin?  Granted, you'd still die I'm sure... but perhaps with epic amounts of rope something could be worked out.

Well, if you landed on the elephants and somehow survived the landing, you'd survive becasue of the air bubble around them.
You could then start excavating the fat deposits.

[Leafsnail]

I'm not so sure of the advantage of having one of these - mining is close to a full time job, and taking breaks to do woodcutting might waste time.  Also, your dwarf would level up both skills slower than one doing each.  In addition, miners already have a hard time with magma/ caveins, while woodcutters (in my place at least) are frequently ambushed by the creatures in the neighbouring Evil Biome (hence they all get war dogs).

[SirHoneyBadger]

While I'd like to see different-headed weapons/tools in the game, I think it's important for the clarity of the game experience, to make one "bit" (or side of the head) be primary, and while the other might offer additional combat options, I don't think it should offer additional tool options.

[Dwaref]

While I'd like to see different-headed weapons/tools in the game, I think it's important for the clarity of the game experience, to make one "bit" (or side of the head) be primary, and while the other might offer additional combat options, I don't think it should offer additional tool options.

I think it should. If we can tolerate battle axes used for woodcutting(halberds and all axe weapons allow coodcutting actually), then an axe/pick wouldn't be unfeasible.


I however am hoping for a revamped tool/weapon system sometime soon.
A dwarf should be able to carry an axe, a pick and a dagger/knife around. The current weapon combination limitations are due to an underdeveloped inventory system and the 'single weapon' dwarf designation.

The profession-limitations(no miner/woodcutters) are in turn based on the inability of both of the above. If both M/W could be activated, dwarves would pick up and drop axes and picks nonstop in a loop, like how they chase over to pickup two-handed weapons but don't. Two-handed weapons are removed from fortress mode and the dwarf files for a reason(it can be overridden if you allow '2' weapons).

My current dwarves are all miners unless they are important. If they are legendary miners, they become woodcutters(and only mine important stuff, taking up mining when i got lots of ore and gems ready and i draft the other bunch). Every dwarf left is armed with an axe(they're all hunters ... in plate).

This stuff is what needs fixing. Every dwarf armed to the teeth, running around with kickass combat skills. Fearless of combat when needed! The miners when somewhat skilled and in plate can be recruited on the fly and pack a punch! And altogether content with running around in heavy combat armor all days of the week!


Dwarves should be able to all wear armor. Tolkien's dwarves wore mail as we wear t-shirts. I also think they should all be able to carry all the tools for all of the professions! Given enough packs, pouches, slings, quivers, straps, sheathes etc.
However, they shouldn't WANT to! They should get discomfortable and sweaty and cranky and outright dump stuff they dont think they need. Say a miner would drop his axe, keeping the pick, keeping only his metal cap of the armor to protect the noggin. And maybe a single layer of mail.
Not every dwarf should have the mentality of a fighter and go roaring off into combat at the whim of the overlord! Most of them should be wusses who curl up and beg for their lives rather than risk to anger attackers by defending themselves! I mean, the goblins should be more likely to let them live, than the elves are. Goblins should be plenty willing!
We'd need more than a speed decreace which they'll be mostly blind for. They should WANT an axe-pick to lighten the load of both an axe and a pick!

Better yet, why not introduce additional tools? Say that a log has to be de-barked with an adze before normal use? It'd be like butchering an animal. Woodcutters would need axe-adzes more than anything else.

[SirHoneyBadger]

You've got good ideas, Dwaref (more tools would be awesome), but the problem-for me anyway-is with skills. If you've got a Swiss army axe that can do like 10 different jobs at a time, how do you separate out which skill gets an increase?

Because it wouldn't just be the skill the dwarf was working on. I use a handaxe to chop through roots all the time when I'm digging new ground for my garden, but that's not teaching me anything about how to use a shovel properly.

[chucks]

You've got good ideas, Dwaref (more tools would be awesome), but the problem-for me anyway-is with skills. If you've got a Swiss army axe that can do like 10 different jobs at a time, how do you separate out which skill gets an increase?

Because it wouldn't just be the skill the dwarf was working on. I use a handaxe to chop through roots all the time when I'm digging new ground for my garden, but that's not teaching me anything about how to use a shovel properly.

I agree with the 1 skill and 1 combat style tools/weapons per object.

However, your comment reminded me of what I learned in PA: On the Rainslick Prepice of Darkness:
Never underestimate the killing power of common gardening implements!

How about harvesting cave wheat with the same scythe that your dwarf used to knock the head of the goblin wrestler that tried to invade last season!  If weapons can get more powerful with the number of enemies they kill, you could easily level up a basic gardening tool to a level of unprecented and epic proportions!

</insane eye-twitching rant>

[ein]

Simple farm tools were the weapons of choice for many assassins.
It lets them appear as a simple farmer or gardener in order to easily get close to their target.

[Leartes]

Simple farm tools were the weapons of choice for many assassins.

This adds assassins to the spy/saboteur/thief-thread.

On topic, i d really like to see more tools ingame. Like the mentioned scythe to harvest cave wheat for example while plump helmets dont require such equipment. (But maybe require the farmer to do something else, like keeping the tile wet with a bucket/automated system - would add depth to the farming ...) Or require the different smith to carry a working hammer (weak version of a battlehammer). The carving jobs should use a knife perhaps etc.
Such a system needs a more complex inventory, like a leather belt providing slots for not used items etc. But I bet Toady has something like that in mind already, he is just occupied elsewhere ;-)

[SirHoneyBadger]

Never underestimate the killing power of common gardening implements!

Dude, I learned that shit in my garden...

[chucks]

LIkewise, but the PA game taught me just host epicly awesome killing mimes with a gardening rake can be!

[Lando242]

A pulaski doesn't have a well sharpened blade, its kinda sharp but not really. The ax head is made to cut through roots and other crap you find while digging, trying to cut a tree down with it is not a fun prospect. Because you are already digging in the dirt, and hitting the ground is one of the fastest ways to dull a blade, you never sharpen it that well to begin with. Just a little fun fact for you.

[SirHoneyBadger]

Maybe "pick axes" and other multi-tools could be used for more than one purpose, but they wouldn't grant any skill for using them? That would retain their great usefulness, but also give a very pressing argument for using single type tools.