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Author Topic: [Quickfort] 2.04 released -- now with minecart track support! [DF 0.34.10]  (Read 309511 times)

Cyntrox

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Re: [Quickfort] Version 2.00 released! DF 31.25 compatible
« Reply #315 on: June 22, 2011, 02:31:15 pm »

I always use 5x5 rooms for my workshops, and have a up/down staircase next to the workshop that leads to stockpiles specific to that workshop. That way you get all the advantages. Like so:


Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Root Infinity

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Re: [Quickfort] Version 2.00 released! DF 31.25 compatible
« Reply #316 on: June 22, 2011, 05:52:20 pm »

For modular blueprints, I've found that a 11x11 grid works best, i.e.,

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The relevant "Base Unit" of dwarf fortress isn't the ten spaces because of the shift key -- it's the basic 3x3 workshop block. Everything else builds off of that.

I have problems with using 3x3 as a basic workshop block. While it's true that most workshops are 3x3, that fails to leave any space for a stockpile or two. If one does not have at least one or two stockpiles next to a workshop, then it can take longer for haulers to haul stuff from/to workshop and said workshop could get cluttered. And cluttered workshops do not produce nearly as fast.

Of course, one may (also) have a storage level immediately above or below a workshop level. But wouldn't having workshops rely entirely on stockpiles in the storage level be less efficient? And it's much more difficult to control access to specific raw materials that way. It's nice to be able to create stockpiles specific for each workshop that exclude certain materials you do not want them to use.

Also, it's not necessary to have every workshop completely walled off. Mostly, it's important for workshops that are moodable:
Oh, and I'm partial to the idea of having moodable workshops "ventilated". This means having fortifications so marksdwarves can easily shoot insane dwarves who failed their mood.

To be specific: I think non-moodable workshops might be better off with either a 4x4 or 5x5 space and no walls to leave room for stockpiles, rather than a 3x3 space with walls. And moodable workshops might be better off with either 4x4 or 5x5 space and walls.


You can in fact work with an 11x11 block with space for individual stockpiles. Just do this:
Spoiler: Z (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Z+1 (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Legend (click to show/hide)

EDIT:

Spoiler: Some quick examples (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: June 22, 2011, 06:37:09 pm by Root Infinity »
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Thundercraft

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Re: [Quickfort] Version 2.00 released! DF 31.25 compatible
« Reply #317 on: June 22, 2011, 07:25:54 pm »

You can in fact work with an 11x11 block with space for individual stockpiles. Just do this:
Spoiler: Z (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Z+1 (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Legend (click to show/hide)

EDIT:

Spoiler: Some quick examples (click to show/hide)
Yes, that could work for non-moodable workshops. But for moodable workshops, if you want to both surround each workshop on all sides with walls and provide immediate access to either stockpiles or a ramp/stairway to another level, it does not seem possible to stick with 11x11 blocks.

Anyway, I was thinking about 12x12 blocks, like this:
Spoiler: Z (click to show/hide)
It's just like your design above, except the corridors have been expanded to 2-tiles wide. This allows them to be combined and/or overlapped as either 2-tile wide, 3-tile wide, or 4-tile wide corridors, like this:
Spoiler: Z (click to show/hide)

If you guys are going to be adding more blueprints, I'll try to keep my folder updated in Wuala, since these don't take much space and I've got a goodly amount left.

Anyone want me to split the .rar into a general folder so you can be more specific, or is it fine as is? (also tell me whats its missing with links if you can)

Well, I see right away that your /Tests/ folder is missing 18 files that are found in Quickfort_2.00.zip (in the \blueprints\Tests\ folder). I can see leaving out empty.csv as it's rather pointless, and a lot of those files are just much larger .xlxs versions of the .csv. Some are pretty useless. Were they left out on purpose? But if that was the reason, why was quote-test.csv included? (Again, rather pointless aside from demonstrating that it's possible to use quotes.) And for some reason you have a dig-5x5.csv.xls duplicate of dig-5x5.csv, while you're missing dig-15x15.csv.

Also, you seem to have an exact duplicate: homage.csv is located both in your root folder ( /Blueprints/ ) and in /Tests/. It might be better to delete the one in the root folder because, again, inside the Quickfort .zip/installation it is located in the \Tests\ folder.

Further, I see that the entire contents of the /WikiBedrooms/toconvert/ folder are duplicated in /templates/, the difference being that /WikiBedrooms/toconvert/ contains 28 files, while /templates/ contains 40 files. This difference is because /templates/ contains all of /WikiBedrooms/toconvert/, plus additional files. The only file that /templates/ is missing is the readme.txt, which just explains that those designs came from the wiki.

In addition, I suggest that you rename your "General" folder to "Examples". Reason? The contents of "General" are identical to the "Examples" folder in Quickfort_2.00.zip and using a different folder name is confusing.

JOELPT: I see that there is a mistake in the \blueprints\Tests\ folder in Quickfort_2.00.zip. Specifically, the dig-10x10.csv blueprint is actually a duplicate of the dig-15x15.csv blueprint! It's merely named "dig-10x10.csv".

(Note: I used the free Duplicate Cleaner software to quickly find duplicate blueprint files.)

Finally, I have quite a few blueprints that you don't have, including some of my own.  Here are all the files you are missing (minus my own designs):
https://rapidshare.com/files/2828568370/MoreBlueprints.zip
However, I want to proofread and test my own designs a bit before sharing those. I'll try to share them soon.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2011, 07:43:01 pm by Thundercraft »
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Aklyon

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Re: [Quickfort] Version 2.00 released! DF 31.25 compatible
« Reply #318 on: June 22, 2011, 07:45:27 pm »

Thanks for pointing out all of that, thundercraft. Does that include the QF2 files, or should I get that myself? (been busy, haven't had time for quickfort)
joelpt, would you mind adding a link to the rar as well? (I know people can just click on Parent directory, but not everyone would know that)

Edit:
Quote
Well, I see right away that your /Tests/ folder is missing 18 files that are found in Quickfort_2.00.zip (in the \blueprints\Tests\ folder). I can see leaving out empty.csv as it's rather pointless, and a lot of those files are just much larger .xlxs versions of the .csv. Some are pretty useless. Were they left out on purpose? But if that was the reason, why was quote-test.csv included? (Again, rather pointless aside from demonstrating that it's possible to use quotes.) And for some reason you have a dig-5x5.csv.xls duplicate of dig-5x5.csv, while you're missing dig-15x15.csv.
Honestly, I don't know why i had it like that Possibly was deleted by mistake, or I copied the wrong things from my old DF folder.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2011, 07:55:00 pm by Aklyon »
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Root Infinity

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Re: [Quickfort] Version 2.00 released! DF 31.25 compatible
« Reply #319 on: June 22, 2011, 07:56:25 pm »

You can in fact work with an 11x11 block with space for individual stockpiles. Just do this:
Spoiler: Z (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Z+1 (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Legend (click to show/hide)

EDIT:

Spoiler: Some quick examples (click to show/hide)
Yes, that could work for non-moodable workshops. But for moodable workshops, if you want to both surround each workshop on all sides with walls and provide immediate access to either stockpiles or a ramp/stairway to another level, it does not seem possible to stick with 11x11 blocks.

Anyway, I was thinking about 12x12 blocks, like this:
Spoiler: Z (click to show/hide)
It's just like your design above, except the corridors have been expanded to 2-tiles wide. This allows them to be combined and/or overlapped as either 2-tile wide, 3-tile wide, or 4-tile wide corridors, like this:
Spoiler: Z (click to show/hide)

Hmm. Nice modification - and that way for moodable workshops you could do this and sacrifice part of the corridor for walls:
Spoiler: Z (click to show/hide)

Any particular reason for the X pattern of staircases beyond asthetics?


EDIT2:
EDIT: Your blocks are 13x13 not 12x12  :o
« Last Edit: June 22, 2011, 08:19:46 pm by Root Infinity »
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Aklyon

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Re: [Quickfort] Version 2.00 released! DF 31.25 compatible
« Reply #320 on: June 22, 2011, 08:43:21 pm »

Folder and rar cleaned/updated/added to. QF2 and thunder's stuff added.
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Crystalline (SG)
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[NO_THOUGHT]

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Re: [Quickfort] Version 2.00 released! DF 31.25 compatible
« Reply #321 on: June 25, 2011, 09:16:13 am »

Does anyone know what happened to the community blueprints page? It says that I can't access the folder because it is private (or doesn't exist)...
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Aklyon

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Re: [Quickfort] Version 2.00 released! DF 31.25 compatible
« Reply #322 on: June 25, 2011, 10:51:53 am »

...Crap. the new folder is all lowercase.

It should work now :-\
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Quote from: RedKing
It's known as the Oppai-Kaiju effect. The islands of Japan generate a sort anti-gravity field, which allows breasts to behave as if in microgravity. It's also what allows Godzilla and friends to become 50 stories tall, and lets ninjas run up the side of a skyscraper.

joelpt

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Re: [Quickfort] Version 2.00 released! DF 31.25 compatible
« Reply #323 on: June 27, 2011, 11:16:39 am »

Anyway, I was thinking about 12x12 blocks, like this:
Spoiler: Z (click to show/hide)
Nice modification [....] Any particular reason for the X pattern of staircases beyond asthetics?
I kind of like the 12x12 idea also, but 4-wide hallways by default (e.g. using Alt+R -> 2e 2s) seem a bit excessive. If we use 2x2 staircases in each corner, too ... well you tell me:


Spoiler: After Alt+R -> 2e 2s (click to show/hide)

Is this excessive? I imagine it would minimize FPS loss due to pathfinding around traffic very well, but the rooms:hallways ratio seems pretty low.

Perhaps an 11x11 design would make more sense, relying on the user to incorporate wider hallways and/or a fort-central staircase as they deem fit.

This would make 4 moodable workshops basically impossible to fit, though we could possibly fit 3:





I'm also considering the idea of including some 'double size' blueprints in /Modular. Say we do an 11x11 series of /Modular blueprints, it might be nice to have a 22x22 folder of blueprints that mesh appropriately with the 11x11 template. This would allow for grander designs like all-in-one industry blueprints, banquet halls with built-in kitchen, etc.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2011, 11:25:09 am by joelpt »
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Root Infinity

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Re: [Quickfort] Version 2.00 released! DF 31.25 compatible
« Reply #324 on: June 27, 2011, 11:38:20 am »

Anyway, I was thinking about 12x12 blocks, like this:
Spoiler: Z (click to show/hide)
Nice modification [....] Any particular reason for the X pattern of staircases beyond asthetics?
I kind of like the 12x12 idea also, but 4-wide hallways by default (e.g. using Alt+R -> 2e 2s) seem a bit excessive. If we use 2x2 staircases in each corner, too ... well you tell me:


Spoiler: After Alt+R -> 2e 2s (click to show/hide)

Is this excessive? I imagine it would minimize FPS loss due to pathfinding around traffic very well, but the rooms:hallways ratio seems pretty low.

Perhaps an 11x11 design would make more sense, relying on the user to incorporate wider hallways and/or a fort-central staircase as they deem fit.

This would make 4 moodable workshops basically impossible to fit, though we could possibly fit 3:





I'm also considering the idea of including some 'double size' blueprints in /Modular. Say we do an 11x11 series of /Modular blueprints, it might be nice to have a 22x22 folder of blueprints that mesh appropriately with the 11x11 template. This would allow for grander designs like all-in-one industry blueprints, banquet halls with built-in kitchen, etc.
I like your 3 moodable workshops idea, and the 11x11 (I like odd numbers for these for some reason). The idea of a 22x22 series also works well. Oh, and I noticed that a DWR fits nicely in a 11x11 space:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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joelpt

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Re: [Quickfort] Version 2.00 released! DF 31.25 compatible
« Reply #325 on: June 27, 2011, 11:49:06 am »

I've also been considering adding an Alt+R transform command to add on-the-fly borders to blueprints. This might accommodate the addition of wider hallways pretty nicely.

The syntax I have in mind would have two forms:

border[corner;edge] // compact syntax
border[nw;n;ne;e;se;s;sw;w] // full syntax

For example, to border an 11x11 blueprint with edge hallways (d) and corner stairs (j), per the above syntax examples, you might do something like:

border[j;d]  // compact assumes we want edges to be repeated d's here
border[j;d(11x1);j;d(1x11);j;d(11x1);j;d(1x11)]  // edges must be fully specified in full syntax

Draco18s

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Re: [Quickfort] Version 2.00 released! DF 31.25 compatible
« Reply #326 on: June 27, 2011, 11:50:50 am »

I use a this design:


########
#WWWWWW#
#WWWWWW#
#WWWWWW#
#WWW===#
#WWW===#
#WWW===#
########


With a hallway on one side and a single door.

If there are 3 workshops that are "generally related" such as a butchery, tannery, and leatherworks.  Other non-related workshops get their own 6x6 space with the empty area as stockpile (for materials); essentially inverting the W and = in the above schematic.  Forges, etc. get a much larger space with magma underneath (if available) powering as many as possible in the most space efficient way possible.
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Root Infinity

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Re: [Quickfort] Version 2.00 released! DF 31.25 compatible
« Reply #327 on: June 27, 2011, 12:36:40 pm »

I've also been considering adding an Alt+R transform command to add on-the-fly borders to blueprints. This might accommodate the addition of wider hallways pretty nicely.

The syntax I have in mind would have two forms:

border[corner;edge] // compact syntax
border[nw;n;ne;e;se;s;sw;w] // full syntax

For example, to border an 11x11 blueprint with edge hallways (d) and corner stairs (j), per the above syntax examples, you might do something like:

border[j;d]  // compact assumes we want edges to be repeated d's here
border[j;d(11x1);j;d(1x11);j;d(11x1);j;d(1x11)]  // edges must be fully specified in full syntax

I likey
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gregorah

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Re: [Quickfort] Version 2.00 released! DF 31.25 compatible
« Reply #328 on: June 28, 2011, 10:30:38 pm »

Cloned onto github, for anyone who wants to play around with the source but hates mercurial as much as I do.

http://github.com/bakergo/quickfort
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joelpt

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Re: [Quickfort] Version 2.00 released! DF 31.25 compatible
« Reply #329 on: July 02, 2011, 01:54:01 pm »

Cloned onto github, for anyone who wants to play around with the source but hates mercurial as much as I do.

http://github.com/bakergo/quickfort
Thanks for this. Here's the most recent document I could find addressing Google Code's lack of git support.


FWIW, I welcome anybody to work on the QF2 codebase. Check the issue tracker for open tasks, or make a new issue for something else you'd like to implement. No contribution is too small.

Aside from the above github repository, you can work on the code via the Google Code QF2 HG repository by cloning the repo. Quality contributions will be pulled into the main repository and folded into future QF2 releases.
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