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Author Topic: Anything besides being impaled on a big stick?  (Read 3669 times)

cowofdoom78963

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Re: Anything besides being impaled on a big stick?
« Reply #15 on: May 23, 2009, 01:15:34 pm »
Quote from: Leafsnail on May 23, 2009, 05:53:22 am
New thought: If I made "Attack enemy" an unthinkable crime for a race, what would happen?

1. Two other civilisations start a war.  Unthinkable attack enemy race starts a war over this unthinkable crime.  They march into battle... and... stop... and get killed.
2. Two other civilisations start a war.  Unthinkable attack enemy race starts a war over this unthinkable crime.  They march into battle... and... stop... but then the first one is attacked.  He automatically retaliates.  OMG!  Unthinkable crime!  The person behind him attacks this criminal.  OMG!  Unspeakable crime!  The person behind him...

So, what the heck would happen?
Mabey in the future when ethics acctualy have an effect, but now their just for show...

I personaly cant wait until then so I can make a race that considers theft ok.
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zchris13

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Re: Anything besides being impaled on a big stick?
« Reply #16 on: May 23, 2009, 01:42:15 pm »
Communism???
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piecewise

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Re: Anything besides being impaled on a big stick?
« Reply #17 on: May 23, 2009, 02:09:43 pm »
I wonder if theft being ok would mean that you'd come across one guy who horded everything in the entire town?
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cowofdoom78963

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Re: Anything besides being impaled on a big stick?
« Reply #18 on: May 23, 2009, 02:52:13 pm »
Quote from: piecewise on May 23, 2009, 02:09:43 pm
I wonder if theft being ok would mean that you'd come across one guy who horded everything in the entire town?
Probably not, but Im sure it would be possible with functioning ethics to create a utopian civilization of sorts
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zchris13

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Re: Anything besides being impaled on a big stick?
« Reply #19 on: May 23, 2009, 02:52:56 pm »
Yeah, you need to change the way a civ thinks to make it work right...
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Demonic Gophers

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Re: Anything besides being impaled on a big stick?
« Reply #20 on: May 23, 2009, 03:12:33 pm »
Quote from: Leafsnail on May 23, 2009, 05:53:22 am
New thought: If I made "Attack enemy" an unthinkable crime for a race, what would happen?

1. Two other civilisations start a war.  Unthinkable attack enemy race starts a war over this unthinkable crime.  They march into battle... and... stop... and get killed.
2. Two other civilisations start a war.  Unthinkable attack enemy race starts a war over this unthinkable crime.  They march into battle... and... stop... but then the first one is attacked.  He automatically retaliates.  OMG!  Unthinkable crime!  The person behind him attacks this criminal.  OMG!  Unspeakable crime!  The person behind him...

So, what the heck would happen?

One way to find out...  I've actually considered making a civ that hated the idea of attacking enemies, but saw nothing wrong with treason and murder.  I haven't gotten around to testing it yet, though.
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cowofdoom78963

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Re: Anything besides being impaled on a big stick?
« Reply #21 on: May 23, 2009, 03:27:47 pm »
Quote from: Demonic Gophers on May 23, 2009, 03:12:33 pm
Quote from: Leafsnail on May 23, 2009, 05:53:22 am
New thought: If I made "Attack enemy" an unthinkable crime for a race, what would happen?

1. Two other civilisations start a war.  Unthinkable attack enemy race starts a war over this unthinkable crime.  They march into battle... and... stop... and get killed.
2. Two other civilisations start a war.  Unthinkable attack enemy race starts a war over this unthinkable crime.  They march into battle... and... stop... but then the first one is attacked.  He automatically retaliates.  OMG!  Unthinkable crime!  The person behind him attacks this criminal.  OMG!  Unspeakable crime!  The person behind him...

So, what the heck would happen?

One way to find out...  I've actually considered making a civ that hated the idea of attacking enemies, but saw nothing wrong with treason and murder.  I haven't gotten around to testing it yet, though.
Ethics dont really do anything in dwarf fortress, they arent followed and only "justify" wars.

At least in the current version.
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Leafsnail

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Re: Anything besides being impaled on a big stick?
« Reply #22 on: May 23, 2009, 05:06:54 pm »
Quote from: cowofdoom78963 on May 23, 2009, 03:27:47 pm
Quote from: Demonic Gophers on May 23, 2009, 03:12:33 pm
Quote from: Leafsnail on May 23, 2009, 05:53:22 am
New thought: If I made "Attack enemy" an unthinkable crime for a race, what would happen?

1. Two other civilisations start a war.  Unthinkable attack enemy race starts a war over this unthinkable crime.  They march into battle... and... stop... and get killed.
2. Two other civilisations start a war.  Unthinkable attack enemy race starts a war over this unthinkable crime.  They march into battle... and... stop... but then the first one is attacked.  He automatically retaliates.  OMG!  Unthinkable crime!  The person behind him attacks this criminal.  OMG!  Unspeakable crime!  The person behind him...

So, what the heck would happen?

One way to find out...  I've actually considered making a civ that hated the idea of attacking enemies, but saw nothing wrong with treason and murder.  I haven't gotten around to testing it yet, though.
Ethics dont really do anything in dwarf fortress, they arent followed and only "justify" wars.

At least in the current version.
I don't think that's true.  I've seen wars started against goblins for hunting/ war trophies and lying, and we all know that elves find it acceptable to eat sentient creatures... if you mess with the ethics, you should find out that it does seem to change it a bit.

Maybe you mean actually in game rather than in gen.  But I'm still curious to know what they'd do in gen.
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piecewise

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Re: Anything besides being impaled on a big stick?
« Reply #23 on: May 23, 2009, 05:19:17 pm »
What they do in gen?

Humans: Kill things

Dwarves: Build overly elaborate things

Elves: WHINEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Goblins:Steal babies


there's probably some war thrown in there too
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Leafsnail

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Re: Anything besides being impaled on a big stick?
« Reply #24 on: May 23, 2009, 05:32:40 pm »
Quote from: piecewise on May 23, 2009, 05:19:17 pm
What they do in gen?

Humans: Kill things

Dwarves: Build overly elaborate things

Elves: WHINEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Goblins:Steal babies


there's probably some war thrown in there too
Creatures for whom it's an unthinkable crime to attack enemies: ?

And goblins have a habit of murdering each other in world gen.
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cowofdoom78963

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Re: Anything besides being impaled on a big stick?
« Reply #25 on: May 23, 2009, 06:16:49 pm »
Quote from: Leafsnail on May 23, 2009, 05:06:54 pm
Quote from: cowofdoom78963 on May 23, 2009, 03:27:47 pm
Quote from: Demonic Gophers on May 23, 2009, 03:12:33 pm
Quote from: Leafsnail on May 23, 2009, 05:53:22 am
New thought: If I made "Attack enemy" an unthinkable crime for a race, what would happen?

1. Two other civilisations start a war.  Unthinkable attack enemy race starts a war over this unthinkable crime.  They march into battle... and... stop... and get killed.
2. Two other civilisations start a war.  Unthinkable attack enemy race starts a war over this unthinkable crime.  They march into battle... and... stop... but then the first one is attacked.  He automatically retaliates.  OMG!  Unthinkable crime!  The person behind him attacks this criminal.  OMG!  Unspeakable crime!  The person behind him...

So, what the heck would happen?

One way to find out...  I've actually considered making a civ that hated the idea of attacking enemies, but saw nothing wrong with treason and murder.  I haven't gotten around to testing it yet, though.
Ethics dont really do anything in dwarf fortress, they arent followed and only "justify" wars.

At least in the current version.
I don't think that's true.  I've seen wars started against goblins for hunting/ war trophies and lying, and we all know that elves find it acceptable to eat sentient creatures... if you mess with the ethics, you should find out that it does seem to change it a bit.

Maybe you mean actually in game rather than in gen.  But I'm still curious to know what they'd do in gen.
Well ok, mabey I should rephrase that, MOST ethics dont do anything. Such as theft and murder. Also yeah, I stated that ethics cause wars.
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Yanlin

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Re: Anything besides being impaled on a big stick?
« Reply #26 on: May 24, 2009, 12:20:15 pm »
Dwarf Fortress: Attacking our enemies? UNTHINKABLE!
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Lymojo

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Re: Anything besides being impaled on a big stick?
« Reply #27 on: May 29, 2009, 04:13:38 pm »
I'd postulate that it's probably merely differences in ethics that cause wars. Like, the gen algorithm sees two civ's regions overlapping and then goes through the two ethics list, and the less they have in common the more likely it is for a war to break out. Each difference rolls against a peace check (with HUGE differences like [unthinkable] vs [acceptable] rolling multiple times or with bigger dies, smaller differences like [personal_matter] vs [punish_reprimand] rolling fewer and smaller dies), and whichever difference rolled the highest is what is cited in the Legends as being the primary cause for the war.
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