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Author Topic: Minecraft - It has blocks.  (Read 2456519 times)

SealyStar

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Re: Minecraft - It has blocks.
« Reply #19740 on: October 04, 2015, 11:45:51 am »

God, I'm so out of touch with the Minecraft community... what was the mod licensing controversy?

If you just mean "stick a license on it for legal reasons", they had that when I was still around and I can't see how that would ruin the scene. But if it's some bullshit about Curse "licensing" mods for distribution on their forum/service, then fuck 'em.
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I assume it was about cod tendies and an austerity-caused crunch in the supply of good boy points.

miauw62

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Re: Minecraft - It has blocks.
« Reply #19741 on: October 04, 2015, 03:03:51 pm »

In my eyes it made mod authors really defensive of their mods and unauthorized usage.
I might be misremembering, though.
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forsaken1111

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Re: Minecraft - It has blocks.
« Reply #19742 on: October 04, 2015, 03:23:29 pm »

Declaring a license for you mods is nothing new. KSP does the same thing, requiring a license for every mod that says how the content may or may not be used/changed/distributed.
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sluissa

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Re: Minecraft - It has blocks.
« Reply #19743 on: October 04, 2015, 04:12:29 pm »

Typically is was because mod authors would stick their mod downloads behind an advertisement, so that each clicked link got them a fraction of a cent. They got picky over people using their mods in modpacks whose link clicks didn't benefit them. I think it climaxed at the beginning of the tekkit/feed the beast era, when, I believe it was pahimar, wrote into the Forestry mod a swtich that would make bees explode like TNT if it was included in particular unauthorized mod packs.

TL;DR: Money became involved and it got ugly.

Declaring a license for you mods is nothing new. KSP does the same thing, requiring a license for every mod that says how the content may or may not be used/changed/distributed.

KSP started doing it AFTER the minecraft drama started up. I can't say it was never done before because I remember the occasional license being included in morrowind mods a while back, but I think the minecraft community made it common practice, which, I can see why it could be a good idea if done right (and KSP has at least done it so it doesn't really affect the common player) but has almost always caused more trouble than it's solved in practice if the modders could just be nice to each other and work together on their common passion rather than see this as some sort of entry level game development internship like they're competing for credit and a job. Rather than trying to make a game they care about better.
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Putnam

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Re: Minecraft - It has blocks.
« Reply #19744 on: October 04, 2015, 04:18:08 pm »

lemme say though

if you want money from modding

...i'm not sure if it's for you?

I mean, not that it's impossible, but there's no reason to expect it whatsoever

i have gotten nothing from donations and I never expected anything

My total modding revenue so far is $0.01 from ad revenue from the material helper

Meta

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Re: Minecraft - It has blocks.
« Reply #19745 on: October 04, 2015, 04:32:25 pm »

I got a problem with Blightfall: I bound the 'C' key to the inventory, but it doesn't work. I'm suspecting a conflict, but the Controls menu shows no conflicting keys whatsoever. Should I start checking the config files for hidden conflicts? And how would I do so easily ?
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0x517A5D

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Re: Minecraft - It has blocks.
« Reply #19746 on: October 04, 2015, 04:52:56 pm »

God, I'm so out of touch with the Minecraft community... what was the mod licensing controversy?

More than you ever wanted to know:

It was a tempest in a teapot.  Basically, Mojang said they were going to start enforcing a section of their EULA.  And the community tried to rise up in rebellion.

It was another example of bad communication from Mojang, and the community taking their vague statements in the worst way.  It was probably made worse by those who actually were affected, i.e. the pay-to-win servers.

Here's Mojang, I think it's the one that set the whole thing off:
Let’s talk server monetisation!
And clarification:
Let’s talk server monetisation – the follow-up Q+A

Here's discussion in this thread:
Minecraft - It has blocks. Page 760

And here's a few posts about the mess from my favorite gaming news site:
Mojang Disallows Money-Making Minecraft Perks
Notch On New Minecraft EULA: Not ‘Literally Worse Than EA’
The Complications Of Minecraft’s Paid Server Situation
Pay To Play: Notch On Minecraft And Monetisation
Minecraft’s Bukkit Mod ‘Ended’ By Dev, Continued By Mojang
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TheBiggerFish

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Re: Minecraft - It has blocks.
« Reply #19747 on: October 04, 2015, 05:44:58 pm »

That was the server fiasco. That's separate to the mod fiasco.
Yeah.
I don't know what the mod fiasco was, and I was around for the server fiasco.
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TheBiggerFish

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Re: Minecraft - It has blocks.
« Reply #19748 on: October 04, 2015, 05:46:52 pm »

That was the server fiasco. That's separate to the mod fiasco.
Yeah.
I don't know what the mod fiasco was, and I was around for the server fiasco.
TBH, I don't think there actually was a fiasco as such, more a damn retarded move that most people just accepted.
Well what the heck WAS it.  I have absolutely no clue.
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Putnam

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Re: Minecraft - It has blocks.
« Reply #19749 on: October 04, 2015, 05:49:53 pm »

Typically is was because mod authors would stick their mod downloads behind an advertisement, so that each clicked link got them a fraction of a cent. They got picky over people using their mods in modpacks whose link clicks didn't benefit them. I think it climaxed at the beginning of the tekkit/feed the beast era, when, I believe it was pahimar, wrote into the Forestry mod a swtich that would make bees explode like TNT if it was included in particular unauthorized mod packs.

TL;DR: Money became involved and it got ugly.

Declaring a license for you mods is nothing new. KSP does the same thing, requiring a license for every mod that says how the content may or may not be used/changed/distributed.

KSP started doing it AFTER the minecraft drama started up. I can't say it was never done before because I remember the occasional license being included in morrowind mods a while back, but I think the minecraft community made it common practice, which, I can see why it could be a good idea if done right (and KSP has at least done it so it doesn't really affect the common player) but has almost always caused more trouble than it's solved in practice if the modders could just be nice to each other and work together on their common passion rather than see this as some sort of entry level game development internship like they're competing for credit and a job. Rather than trying to make a game they care about better.

sluissa

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Re: Minecraft - It has blocks.
« Reply #19750 on: October 04, 2015, 06:54:57 pm »

That was the server fiasco. That's separate to the mod fiasco.
Yeah.
I don't know what the mod fiasco was, and I was around for the server fiasco.
TBH, I don't think there actually was a fiasco as such, more a damn retarded move that most people just accepted.
Well what the heck WAS it.  I have absolutely no clue.

See my earlier post, as quoted by Putnam, but basically(I lie, it's really complicated), some big name minecraft mod authors started getting picky and finicky about who they wanted to work with. (In a lot of cases this was over ad revenue, but not in every case) My damaged memory suggests it was the Industrialcraft person/people that were one of the first if not the first real person to say "I don't want to associate with these people." But Flowerchild of Better than Wolves/Better than Starting Manned" fame also was a bit uppity about working with other people, but chose a sort of different path (refusing to use community libraries to make their mod compatible with other mods).

Because of this in community conflict, legal-esque licenses were put in place which basically said "You can't use my mod in a modpack without my permission." There was some back and forth over whether this was actually legal or not, as mods are by their nature, dealing with the Mojang owned codebase. Most of the time some of the code base is included within the mod. (The addition of forge, bukkit, and various other community lead mod APIs has muddied these waters a lot, and I"m not sure if it's still a valid argument or not.)  When this code base is included with the mod, it should legally be counted as Mojang's property since it's still theirs, it's just a modification of their original product.

Getting to the important part here:

So... One argument would say because Mojang technically owns most mods by virtue of their code being contained therein, most mod makers have no legal right to negotiate licenses on their behalf nor to claim ownership over their property.

The other side of the coin is that mod makers have added significant value to the mojang codebase, and have worked hard, and a lot of the stuff is an original creation and mod makers should be able to control what they created.

There was a lot of waffling about this, and some Mojang staff even gave their unofficial opinion, but I don't think an official statement was ever put out by them covering this. I think they'd rather the community fight amongst themselves rather than a large chunk be mad at Mojang due to making a decision and enforcing something. (See the server fiasco which happened later which lends some credence to this theory)

Within the community a decision was made at some point by forum staff to heavily encourage mod makers to include a license with their mod pack. While this didn't finish the argument, it did help cut down on the intensity of the flames being spread and give people a place to point to and say "these are the rules, follow them".

Whether or not the rules are legal or justifiable is arguable, but they're the only solid rules anyone's put out, so people tend to go by them. And finally, because of the minecraft forum's central position within the community. Many of the moderators enforce people to play along with the various published licenses or else they will not allow non-compliant mod makers to advertise their mods on the forums. Which lends some power behind the word of law. You can't stop what people do in their own homes, but if they want any significant publicity they have to follow the rules.

So this is where we are. Licenses are de facto enforced by the community whether or not the world's legal systems would allow them to be or not.


TL;DR: Fear of losing popularity/money leads to anger by mod makers leads to hate at each other leads to suffering for the players.
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TheBiggerFish

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Re: Minecraft - It has blocks.
« Reply #19751 on: October 04, 2015, 07:03:54 pm »

Thanks.
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SealyStar

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Re: Minecraft - It has blocks.
« Reply #19752 on: October 04, 2015, 10:48:02 pm »

That was the server fiasco. That's separate to the mod fiasco.
Yeah, I was still kind of active (though not on the Curse forum) at the time of the server debacle (and the beginning of the mod-monetization madness... God, what was the name of that one service that everyone used for click-through ads?)
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I assume it was about cod tendies and an austerity-caused crunch in the supply of good boy points.

Urist McScoopbeard

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Re: Minecraft - It has blocks.
« Reply #19753 on: October 04, 2015, 11:27:45 pm »

That was the server fiasco. That's separate to the mod fiasco.
Yeah, I was still kind of active (though not on the Curse forum) at the time of the server debacle (and the beginning of the mod-monetization madness... God, what was the name of that one service that everyone used for click-through ads?)

ad.fly

EDIT: why do I remember this, but not anything I have on my tests in school???
« Last Edit: October 05, 2015, 12:02:51 am by Urist McScoopbeard »
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SealyStar

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Re: Minecraft - It has blocks.
« Reply #19754 on: October 05, 2015, 12:41:42 am »

That was the server fiasco. That's separate to the mod fiasco.
Yeah, I was still kind of active (though not on the Curse forum) at the time of the server debacle (and the beginning of the mod-monetization madness... God, what was the name of that one service that everyone used for click-through ads?)

ad.fly

EDIT: why do I remember this, but not anything I have on my tests in school???
adf.ly, I think, but yeah, that's it.

I only just realized I'd forgotten that.
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I assume it was about cod tendies and an austerity-caused crunch in the supply of good boy points.
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