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[forsaken1111]

So I have started up a Minecraft 1.7.9 vanilla server on a normal map. Once 1.8x drops I'll either upgrade and wipe the map or just start a second one.

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=138471.0

[MarcAFK]

I seem gto have broken my minecraft or something, I can't get more than about 15 fps now, whereas a few days ago It was bareable *sigh*

[Remuthra]

I hear the latest snapshot has a bad impact on performance.

[MarcAFK]

It had something to do with optifine, when I reinstalled it my fps went to crap even after uninstalling.
But reinstalling again and checking advanced open gl fixed it.
So I've discovered that there's 2 servers calling themselves civcraft.
The one I'm familiar with hasn't reset and is still a vast empty wasteland of ruined cities, my vault is intact after a year of inactivity(hooray my 4 iron is safe!) and I've actually run into someone from a nearby city who thanked me for a road I built almost 2 years ago linking 2 bridges.
The other civcrAft which has all the features I wanted to play lagged me to death, but this was before I fixed optifine.

[SealyStar]

Thoughts on the new Mojang policy on server monetization?

(https://mojang.com/ - the top post)

Personally, I think this is a mind-bendingly terrible idea and shows that one or both of the following must be true:
1. That for such a crazy profitable business Mojang still has no one on its staff who actually knows how businesses work
2. That Mojang is in cahoots with the big already-monetized servers and is working to bring up their bottom line at players' expense.

Illegalizing pay-to-win is a great thing, as is banning preferential treatment of paying players. Unfortunately, the fact that they still allow charging to play as long as everyone gets charged is immensely... retarded. Does anyone honestly think that the servers with "premium" access will now become F2P? No, if they have a single neuron on their money they'll just use the new rules as an excuse to charge everyone who plays, so that they can make even more money. And the servers which keep alive with only a small minority of people as premium will fall under because if they make everyone pay then they'll lose players until the server is shit anyway, and if they don't charge anyone then they won't have enough money.

Granted, they still allow two other forms of financial support: generosity gratia suae* and buying cosmetic items. The issue is that there is no clear delineation between these things. I'm not a social scientist of any sort, but there seems to be an underlying principle of economics (especially), sociology, political science, and so on that people are usually jerks who do what's best for them and almost never willingly do something for which they receive no compensation at all. Even charity is really a form of contributing to causes which benefit oneself, tax breaks for charitable contributions, or just to get your name on something.

This means that servers can't depend on donations without compensation, so they'll all transition to the latter system if they want to get money without charging a "cover fee". So all servers will begin counting all de facto** donations as de jure** buying cosmetic items so that they'll have something to advertise as the quid pro quo***.

But where do you cut off "cosmetic" versus "functional"? It's a valid question in a number of fields. In Minecraft in particular, even Mojang's specific examples of cosmetic items could be very useful in a PvP or survival environment: "pet" wolves for hunting and fighting, "particle effects" and "hats" for identifying team/clanmates in PvP.

So now after my criticism of the strict and arbitrary nature of Mojang's new rules, I'll go in the other direction to say why they won't actually do anything. How will these be enforced? Will Mojang hire new employees just to troll servers for rules enforcement? Given the ways they seem to blow money and the sheer number of employees they have that seem to do nothing but hang around for money, it wouldn't be a surprise, but anyway. Enlist player volunteers to do the same? Fat chance getting anyone to volunteer for anything when the person they're working for has the resources to pay them instead - they'd feel like they're getting shafted.

Even if one of these strategies works, it can only do so for the largest, most popular servers, simply because there are just so many of them out there. And in the case of the hypothetically banned pay-to-win and preferential treatment, how will they know when money is changing hands? Is it not possible and indeed probably commonplace that server owners will give nice things in-game to friends and acquaintances, real and imagined, who they just happen to have been financially supported by in real life? How will Mojang confirm that the people getting special treatment are donors, too, without NSA-grade access to PayPal/other services' transaction histories?

I can't think of a conclusion, having pretty much put out all my criticisms above, so /endrant

*For its own sake - I just have to use at least one Latin phrase per rant.
**These two should be well-known - just in case, "in fact" and "by law", respectively.
***And if you don't know this one, get out.

[Mephansteras]

All of my multiplayer minecraft experience is on personal servers with friends. I have never used public servers, let alone any that had some sort of payment system in place. So...I don't really care one way or another.

[miauw62]

I used to play on a public freebuild server, and it was just rather chill. Donators got a few neat perks like teleportation and acces to some normally banned blocks and w/e, but that was it. (Most of the donators were regulars that eventually become moderators anyway).

[aristabulus]

This link will stand the test of time a little better....  https://mojang.com/2014/06/lets-talk-server-monetisation/

(words)

I think you need to rein in your speculations, Sealy.  Or, y'know, provide evidence.

I can concede that Minecraft has enough momentum to give Mojang some extra margin for error, but it _would_ be bad business to not say anything at all.  The monetization is happening regardless, they are getting stuck untangling the messier instances, and they can't remain silent about it.

But there's also economic realities around hosting servers.  Electricity isn't free, and running a 24/7 server tends to use a bit.  Renting hardware in a co-lo isn't free.  So Mojang drew some lines around what they think is okay and not okay, and I think those lines are reasonable, all in all.  It's not slamming the door in the face of people that are indirectly helping them keep momentum, and it's not throwing their hands up and saying "LOL!  Do whatever you want."

Now that the statement has been made, they can see who nudges their servers within the boundaries, and who doesn't.  Those that don't are gonna get hammered with lawyers, takedown notices, etc etc.

End result?  Most of the servers will tweak to account for the new rules.  There will be a few that take their ball and go home, and a few that thumb their nose @ Mojang (then get crushed out of existence).  Life will go on, there will still be too many servers to count out there, and the golden goose will keep laying eggs.

[SealyStar]

This link will stand the test of time a little better....  https://mojang.com/2014/06/lets-talk-server-monetisation/

(words)

I think you need to rein in your speculations, Sealy.  Or, y'know, provide evidence.

I can concede that Minecraft has enough momentum to give Mojang some extra margin for error, but it _would_ be bad business to not say anything at all.  The monetization is happening regardless, they are getting stuck untangling the messier instances, and they can't remain silent about it.

What "messier instances"? Are there certain case studies that I don't know about that prompted the move?

But there's also economic realities around hosting servers.  Electricity isn't free, and running a 24/7 server tends to use a bit.  Renting hardware in a co-lo isn't free.

Don't act like I don't know that already. However, there are a number of big servers which actually seek to, and usually do, make a profit. Though I respect their business sense, I'm very cynical about these, as are a lot of other players I've met. These new rules do literally nothing to curtail such for-profit servers, and, as far as I can see, could actually give them an excuse to bump up their profit margins.

So Mojang drew some lines around what they think is okay and not okay, and I think those lines are reasonable, all in all.

What's reasonable about being able to charge everyone to play but not being able to give people perks for donating? That's so incredibly backwards for both Mojang as the company in charge and the players on these servers.

It's not slamming the door in the face of people that are indirectly helping them keep momentum,

But it is discouraging them by banning servers from giving them rewards for their donations.

and it's not throwing their hands up and saying "LOL!  Do whatever you want."

Right, but this is basically forcing servers who want to make money, whether just to cover hosting costs or to make a profit, to switch their moneymaking methods to ones that will either result in too little money or force all players to pay.

Now that the statement has been made, they can see who nudges their servers within the boundaries, and who doesn't.  Those that don't are gonna get hammered with lawyers, takedown notices, etc etc.

Actually, they can't see, or rather will have difficulty seeing, who "nudges their servers within the boundaries, and who doesn't". Did you miss the entire penultimate paragraph? Since there are so many servers, and literally any schmoe can make one, it's gonna be hard to track down rulebreakers.

End result?  Most of the servers will tweak to account for the new rules.  There will be a few that take their ball and go home, and a few that thumb their nose @ Mojang (then get crushed out of existence).  Life will go on, there will still be too many servers to count out there, and the golden goose will keep laying eggs.

It's funny, because almost everything you say here fits perfectly into my argument.
"Servers will tweak to account for the new rules": And now they have to choose between charging more money (bad for players, good for server) or shutting down (bad for players and server)
"A few that take their ball and go home": Also bad for both.
"A few that thumb their nose @ Mojang": And may very well escape detection altogether, because Mojang probably doesn't have eyes and inside men on every single server, even the big ones (but this is actually a good thing according to my opinion on the new rules).
"The golden goose will keep laying eggs": For the big for-profit servers it will, at players' expense. For Mojang, it probably won't in the long run as the increasing shortage of servers and even more drastic shortage of free servers gradually eliminates one of Minecraft's biggest draws, officially free multiplayer, and they lose potential new buyers and their current customer loyalty for future games.

[Putnam]

All I've heard is a ridiculous amount of parents being relieved about their child not begging them for money to pay for the bribes to get various items normally locked out to them in some servers.

[SealyStar]

All I've heard is a ridiculous amount of parents being relieved about their child not begging them for money to pay for the bribes to get various items normally locked out to them in some servers.

Yeah, now they'll just beg for money to play in the server period.

[Putnam]

You severely underestimate the power investment goes into making a decision for a purchase, not to mention the fact that it's entirely unlikely that there will be such a large amount of pay-to-play servers.

[aristabulus]

This was unofficial but from a Mojang-er commentary about a week before the official statement re: servers.

So, if it's on the radar enough that they think it's making the game and the company look bad, they must have had to clean up a few messes.  Then, the whole possible tax evasion angle.  Also bad PR, even though it's not Mojang committing the deed.

What's reasonable about being able to charge everyone to play but not being able to give people perks for donating?

There's nothing requiring a server to charge everyone or not run at all; you're speculating again on what will happen.

It only says that _if_ they're gonna charge for simple access, they have to charge everyone, and charge the same value for everyone.  No "let Steve in for free because I've known him since preschool, and charge Jimmy 5 bucks because he's kinda cool, but charge Dave 20 because his sister wouldn't go out with me."

No paywalling of game aspects, or tiering of players.  No "5 bucks if you want TNT and/or lava."  No "10 bucks if you want to get to the Nether."  No "20 bucks if you want to use our cool mod stuff."  Regardless of whether there's a charge at the door or not, once a player is in, they get access to everything the server is running.

Donations have to be exactly that, straight up money in the tip jar.  Acknowledging the donation with thanks is allowed (I daresay encouraged!), but that's it.  If you want to give them something, then....

Cosmetic only perks can be sold, which give people a way to wear their support of the server as a badge.

And finally there's adverts and sponsors.  I think this one is a little sketchy, as I'm not fond of letting adverts into my brain, at all, ever.  Some people don't mind them.

Plenty of ways for a server to generate revenue, and it's not limited to one of them!

I doubt that any significant number of people are getting rich by operating a Minecraft server, even the predatory P2W folks.  Turning an official profit is much different than turning a new-solid-gold-ferrari-every-month profit.  There are too many options for other places to play for anyone to put up with that.

Actually, they can't see, or rather will have difficulty seeing, who "nudges their servers within the boundaries, and who doesn't". Did you miss the entire penultimate paragraph? Since there are so many servers, and literally any schmoe can make one, it's gonna be hard to track down rulebreakers.

You greatly underestimate the power of technology, and where the limits lay.  Every client calls home for updates and the news ticker on startup.  It's very possible that additional information goes back to Mojang.  That could also be happening with the servers.  All that aside, it would take exactly one call to Google to get a list of (damn near) All The Servers.  Joe Schmoe's ad-hoc server isn't even part of the equation, because in order to transgress on the money rules, you need payment vectors, and you need to be findable so people can get on the server and pay; that's a trail to follow.  Any server that is hidden well enough to not show up on the big Google list is hidden well enough to not have a bunch of kids stumbling upon it...

Which is the crux of this whole thing, really.

Just like the IAP problems Apple has had to deal with, parents are quite willing to handwave-accept requests from the digital babysitter.... until it starts costing them serious money.  Then the parents get angry, like any good consumer.  "I've been unjustly parted from my money!"  They target the easiest place to vent their rage:  Mojang.  "It's their game, surely they are involved somehow!"  No, really, Mojang isn't.... server hosting is more complicated than that.  But a lot of those angry parents think that a computer is a magic box, too.

Frankly, that Mojang is being this chill about the whole thing is probably a miracle.  Any other company would've already set rabid lawyers loose to sow terror and nuke servers.  Maybe it's that clean Swedish air?

It's funny, because almost everything you say here fits perfectly into my argument.

No, really, it doesn't.  Your argument seems to hinge around being angry that anyone could possibly turn a profit, and accounts for only one possible outcome: that these new rules Will Make Everything Be Paid Access, And Ruin Everything Forever.  Have you got anything more than that, something that doesn't rhyme with "the sky is falling"?

Servers don't have to jack up their rates to keep an even keel... they just have to provide enough value that people actually _want_ to support the server.  The relationship between server and player doesn't have to be adversarial.

Seriously, it's a video game.  Don't like it?  Don't play on a server that looks like it is operating in that way.  Can't find a free server? (yeah, right)  Run your own.  Still angry?  Find a different game to play.  Plenty of alternate choices to be made...  and plenty of alternates that are *gasp* 100% free!  (that's unpossible!)

-----

You severely underestimate the power investment goes into making a decision for a purchase, not to mention the fact that it's entirely unlikely that there will be such a large amount of pay-to-play servers.

Emotional investment and loss aversion do factor in, but I think most of the problem to date has been the IAP angle.  As I said above, the Un-Parents(tm) will absently agree to damn near anything to keep the digital babysitter functioning... until it hits them hard in the wallet.

[bluephoenix]

This was unofficial but from a Mojang-er commentary about a week before the official statement re: servers.

No paywalling of game aspects, or tiering of players.  No "5 bucks if you want TNT and/or lava."  No "10 bucks if you want to get to the Nether."

This always annoyed me. I found a lot of servers did things like this where you were not allowed to visit the nether and/or use buckets until you "donated" at least 10 bucks.

[MarcAFK]

.... Not my buckets! The monsters