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[Micro102]

I don't know how people are complaining about the resources management in EE. I always need more diamonds. If you're going to convert everything to what you need, then your delaying the actual mod by a loooong time and only using the philosopher stone. By the time you get enough diamond for your first dark matter, you will have already found diamonds in game.

[cerapa]

Sandbox game, you can control everything about the game by controlling yourself.

...or by not using the mods... which is what we were saying.  I see no reason to install it because I think it imbalances my game.

You can directly control if it imbalances your game.

Ima be here, turning vast quantities of stone into a much lesser quantity of diamonds and refusing to use aggregators on a scale larger than the 2 I produced just to see how they work. I can totally control whetever the mod unbalances anything.

Dont bring up imbalance as a reason. If you dont want anything from the mod, then thats a reason, but not imbalance in a friggin sandbox game.

[Duke 2.0]

 These mods exist to sorta provide a flow of gameplay. They are intended to be progressed through, advancing upon simpler feats until you reach the most complex and rewarding feature in the mod. When you either skip or dilute part of this progression some part of the path is not balanced, leading to a lesser gameplay experience.

 EE was made with the intent of using the Philosophers stone to transmute everything around. It's a core mechanic of the mod and is intended for the use of every other feature. To not use it as its intended for the mod kinda defeats the purpose of its intent. Minecraft in itself has the idea of a sandbox game, but a major feature of it is the survival aspect, which is a large game of progression in a random world. If you muck with the progression players feel cheated.
 

[Andir]

Sandbox game, you can control everything about the game by controlling yourself.

...or by not using the mods... which is what we were saying.  I see no reason to install it because I think it imbalances my game.

You can directly control if it imbalances your game.

Ima be here, turning vast quantities of stone into a much lesser quantity of diamonds and refusing to use aggregators on a scale larger than the 2 I produced just to see how they work. I can totally control whetever the mod unbalances anything.

Dont bring up imbalance as a reason. If you dont want anything from the mod, then thats a reason, but not imbalance in a friggin sandbox game.

Why install it at all?  Or, maybe a better question is: Why do you feel the need for me to install something I need to turn off for my game?  If I consider it imbalanced to be able to transmute items into others or to be able to walk away from my computer while a quarry digs out all the resources I need... why does that offend you?  If I wanted all the resources in the world and to break my "balance", I'd just '/gamemode <myname> 1' and shift click a stack of something.

[cerapa]

Sandbox game, you can control everything about the game by controlling yourself.

...or by not using the mods... which is what we were saying.  I see no reason to install it because I think it imbalances my game.

You can directly control if it imbalances your game.

Ima be here, turning vast quantities of stone into a much lesser quantity of diamonds and refusing to use aggregators on a scale larger than the 2 I produced just to see how they work. I can totally control whetever the mod unbalances anything.

Dont bring up imbalance as a reason. If you dont want anything from the mod, then thats a reason, but not imbalance in a friggin sandbox game.

Why install it at all?  Or, maybe a better question is: Why do you feel the need for me to install something I need to turn off for my game?  If I consider it imbalanced to be able to transmute items into others or to be able to walk away from my computer while a quarry digs out all the resources I need... why does that offend you?  If I wanted all the resources in the world and to break my "balance", I'd just '/gamemode <myname> 1' and shift click a stack of something.

Then the reason isnt that it imbalances the game, the reason is that you simply dont want it. I arent arguing for you to download anything, did I miss the sides in this debate or something?

Personally I do whatever I wanna do, I set up my own feats and my own challenges. Progression is a result of what I choose. If I dilute things, then its my own choice, and if I make things harder then that is also my own choice. I dont understand why a person would blame mods for those things.

[Andir]

Because a mod that changes the progression of breaking wood with your bare fists to working your way up to having enough diamond to do some project unbalances Notch's intent for the game.  You may as well be playing in creative mode.  If someone comes in and says there isn't enough iron to be found and someone comes up later and suggests that they install some mod to make it easier, how is that not an unbalanced mod?

[TheBronzePickle]

Some mods aren't necessarily supposed to be balanced. They're there to make it easier. If you don't like that, don't use the mod.

[Duke 2.0]

 I don't think mods as extensive and as based around tiers are simply there just to make things easier. It's pretty clear they have their own ideas on the progression of the player and resource collection.

 I think I just prefer my progression to take place alongside the default materials in the game and not beyond it.

[cerapa]

Yes, preferances. You prefer that.

I just dont understand what balance people are talking about. Is there some sorta work to diamonds ratio or something? Is there a competitive multiplayer scene, so mods have to be balanced with eachother to make it fair?

Notch's intent

Okay, we are just working on completely different wavelengths, should have gotten that sooner. Gonna go screw around with redstone now.

[Duke 2.0]

I just dont understand what balance people are talking about. Is there some sorta work to diamonds ratio or something? Is there a competitive multiplayer scene, so mods have to be balanced with eachother to make it fair?

I already covered this. It's all about how quickly the player progresses through the features the game world has to offer mixed with vanity projects. When a player can skip several features it is considered imbalanced in the context of a sandbox game, as one feature is so good it nullifies the use of other features to achieve the same goal.

[TheBronzePickle]

A true sandbox doesn't have balance or progression since progression is set by the player and balance is set by progression. A person is never required to use every single feature handed to him in any game, and in a lot of cases people don't.

[Duke 2.0]

 Minecraft is not a true sandbox. Only games that are literally just tech demos are 'true' sandboxes.

 A sandbox is defined by its contained features and how the player plays around with them. If some features are not utilized then they shouldn't be included. I don't necessarily agree with your terms of how balance and progression work either.

[TheBronzePickle]

Most games have features that aren't utilized, usually because of unbalance. I don't think anyone's ever made a 'perfectly balanced' game.

A lot of mods happen to add features that are balanced within themselves and not with the material of the game. They're designed to add a new balance that doesn't correlate with the balance of the game.

[Duke 2.0]

 That's great.

 

Yes, preferances.

 Although I'm glad you finally accept that unbalance can exist in Minecraft, and why an excess of it or glaring examples of it can be a problem for ones opinions.

[cerapa]

Now, to get off the topic of balance, I have created a most wondrous device that generates cobblestone and makes it dissapear while flashing in and out of existance. At one point it just went "fuck it" and shut down.

Its actually quite hypnotic to watch it go.

Does anyone know how to delay an on signal? Off signals have to be instantaneous.

EDIT: I cant stop staring at it. Its just so ludicrously stupid and the flashing...