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Author Topic: Fear of the Hammer(er)  (Read 2292 times)

Nightwind

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Fear of the Hammer(er)
« on: May 17, 2009, 06:16:07 am »
Many of the stories on this site seem to be in mortal terror of this dwarf.

Everything I've read on the wiki indicates that if you have enough fortress guard to arrest dwarves and enough places to chain/rope/cage them then the hammer strikes will never fall.

Or simply to have no guard and no jail, and there will never be a punishment for any crime.

In the first case, even rope will work, from pigtails underground or ropereed on the surface.  The farmers workshop takes only stone or wood, even just the wagon's 3 logs gives you enough.  Ditto the loom and clothier's workshop.  So you could gather plants, and process into rope without a single stone used, or metal smelted.  Thus a jail from no permanent resources.

In the 2nd, worst case scenario is a tantruming noble.  Big loss?  No captain of the guard appointed means that there will not even be a beating done.


So why the terror?
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Neruz

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Re: Fear of the Hammer(er)
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2009, 06:51:05 am »
Some people consider not appointing sheriffs\fortress guard to be 'cheating'
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FellMoodFox

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Re: Fear of the Hammer(er)
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2009, 07:15:52 am »
Also, for those who do appoint a captain [due to considering it cheating not to], dwarf logic can result in a hammering anyway.  If your fortress guard happen to be particularly stupid dwarven, a "criminal" may never be restrained.
[Guard] Okay, time to lock up that prisoner. *gets right next to him* ... I'm thirsty. *wanders off*
Repeat for all the guards with hunger, thirst, sleep, etc, until eventually the hammerer decides to dispense injustice. [edit]: Usually on the face of your favorite champion / legendary weaponsmith or armorer / etc.
Plus I think the Hammerer was worse in earlier editions, and old fears die hard.  See: Elephants.
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Logical2u

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Re: Fear of the Hammer(er)
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2009, 07:42:53 am »
Even with enough cages (right now I don't have enough, but previously I did. Guess I should work on that before the next mandate fails >.>), guards, and a captain of the guard, I've still had the hammerer take out prisoners over failed mandates. (This is a very successful fortress running in 40d11 by the way).

Hammerers are a pain because their punishments can almost be considered random. The justice system seems to almost randomly decide whether the person will be beaten or imprisoned, since I've seen both happen for similar mandates (typically "Make bismuth items (3/3)" or "Make zinc items (3/3)")
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Nightwind

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Re: Fear of the Hammer(er)
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2009, 08:04:28 am »
Wiki also seemed to indicate that if a person COULD have done the mandate, then that person is the one punished and not a random dwarf...

Also wrong?
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Byakugan01

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Re: Fear of the Hammer(er)
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2009, 08:57:40 am »
Thing is, it can happen even if you DON'T have the necessary materials for the mandate. Example: Make steel items 3/3  when your trade liasion got croaked the first year-and there's NO flux ANYWHERE on the map, let alone iron.
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Village_Idiot

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Re: Fear of the Hammer(er)
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2009, 09:00:35 am »
Or if you have a legendary metalsmith, who used to be a glassmaker, and you have no sand anywhere on the map, would the former glassmsith get punished if the glass mandates failed?
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Captain Xenon

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Re: Fear of the Hammer(er)
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2009, 10:49:07 am »
punishment is totaly random. this can be verified by saving your game before the red mandate goes to punishment. observe punishment, reload save and observe again as needed. the difference between arresting officer, punishment, and criminal will vary with no clear logic.

it is the random beating to death for a failure to do impossible tasks that most of us worry about. happily, failing a demand for 'item' does not have a bad consequence itself. but constant demands for adamantium, crystal glass, and pig iron on no-flux maps, are why we have death chambers for nobility.


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WorkerDrone

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Re: Fear of the Hammer(er)
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2009, 11:09:58 am »
Its sort of funny how commonplace regicide is in DF.

Its all quite so simple and straightforward, nobility making insane demands, that its a wonder why there wasn't MORE regicide in actual history...

Wait...there was.

Oh. Okay then. Carry on.
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IceShade

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Re: Fear of the Hammer(er)
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2009, 11:19:34 am »
Quote from: Nightwind on May 17, 2009, 08:04:28 am
Wiki also seemed to indicate that if a person COULD have done the mandate, then that person is the one punished and not a random dwarf...

Also wrong?

This is sometimes the case. I had mandates for zinc items; metalsmith gets locked up.

However, many a time I had champions locked up with absolutely no skill other than social and military. Also, a planter was beaten to death for not creating leather items. A planter!
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Tormy

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Re: Fear of the Hammer(er)
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2009, 02:01:48 pm »
Quote from: Neruz on May 17, 2009, 06:51:05 am
Some people consider not appointing sheriffs\fortress guard to be 'cheating'

Hm...I usually don't have fortress guards & hammerers at all, and I am not considering it cheating. Why should that be "cheating"? I don't even understand it.  ???
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Leafsnail

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Re: Fear of the Hammer(er)
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2009, 03:32:26 pm »
Quote
Plus I think the Hammerer was worse in earlier editions, and old fears die hard.  See: Elephants.
As far as I can tell, it's similar with nobles.  They can make annoying mandates, but as far as I can tell the days of 20 dwarf noble waves are over (see: boatmurdered).

My one usually just makes pointless export mandates.  I've only had one punishment so far, 30 days in prison for a metal maker who basically failed to make metal items out of a ore we didn't have.
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ArkDelgato

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Re: Fear of the Hammer(er)
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2009, 06:33:24 pm »
Quote from: Nightwind on May 17, 2009, 08:04:28 am
Wiki also seemed to indicate that if a person COULD have done the mandate, then that person is the one punished and not a random dwarf..
Well, with the system we have now, where anyone can have any job at any time, anyone COULD do the work, so it isn't wrong, its just very, very odd.

Hammerer: Whelp, you must pay for stifling the baron's need for gold codpieces!
Urist McAnimalstab: But I be but a lowly hunter, surely a smith or weaver deserves this punishment more than me!
Hammerer: Can you lift a metal bar?
Urist McAnimalstab: Well sure, but by no means is it my usual pro-
Urist McAnimalstab, Hunter has been struck down!


YOU HAVE STRUCK MICROCLINE!

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ein

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Re: Fear of the Hammer(er)
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2009, 06:45:00 pm »
Quote from: ArkDelgato on May 17, 2009, 06:33:24 pm
Quote from: Nightwind on May 17, 2009, 08:04:28 am
Wiki also seemed to indicate that if a person COULD have done the mandate, then that person is the one punished and not a random dwarf..
Well, with the system we have now, where anyone can have any job at any time, anyone COULD do the work, so it isn't wrong, its just very, very odd.

Hammerer: Whelp, you must pay for stifling the baron's need for gold codpieces!
Urist McAnimalstab: But I be but a lowly hunter, surely a smith or weaver deserves this punishment more than me!
Hammerer: Can you lift a metal bar?
Urist McAnimalstab: Well sure, but by no means is it my usual pro-
Urist McAnimalstab, Hunter has been struck down!


YOU HAVE STRUCK MICROCLINE NATIVE GOLD!


fixed
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Kinnis

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Re: Fear of the Hammer(er)
« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2009, 07:24:01 pm »
Quote from: Tormy on May 17, 2009, 02:01:48 pm
Quote from: Neruz on May 17, 2009, 06:51:05 am
Some people consider not appointing sheriffs\fortress guard to be 'cheating'

Hm...I usually don't have fortress guards & hammerers at all, and I am not considering it cheating. Why should that be "cheating"? I don't even understand it.  ???

This is a single player game. You play the game the way you want to play it. There is no such concept as cheating in a single player game. Enjoy.
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