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Author Topic: DIG DEEPER, V1.4B  (Read 180542 times)

Phelix

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Re: Dwarf Fortress: DIG DEEPER [v1.2]
« Reply #270 on: August 14, 2009, 06:40:09 pm »

So far Ive lost 3 Fortresses too this mod....

1st: Skeletal Wyvern & Zombie Wyvern (thatll show me for starting in a terrifying mountain range)
2nd (Reclaim of first fortress): Orc Horde killed a good number of my reclaimers (despite them being combat dwarves) and rest of fortress tantrum spiraled
3rd: Lost it too an orc siege before in the first fall... thatll show me for building in non-terrifying areas near the orc hordes (the only mountain ranges on my world is A) Terrifying Mountain Range, and B) An orc infested area.... no other mountain ranges....)

4th: Terrifying location near where my first one was (just southeast of it) so far so good (no undead so far or other dangerous things)

Fun... but very hard mod
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"An Ambush! Curse them!"

Saeldanya

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Re: Dwarf Fortress: DIG DEEPER [v1.2]
« Reply #271 on: August 14, 2009, 06:51:30 pm »

Alright, so I picked the older save back up and managed to get a crash during the 4th save. I can't tell if there is a common occurrence before all the crashes, it seems random to me. After I reload it usually doesn't happen again for a few more saves. I wanted to post the Windows error log here but didn't realize it was a temp file that would go poof from its folder after I close the notification window (tech doofus as I said), and stupidly copy / paste directly from that window isnt possible. I'll grab the .txt from the next savecrash I get.

However, I grabbed the data from what happens when I try to load the fubared newer save, the one 2 seasons after the earlier copy I use to play now. I can't tell what kind of Runtime Error I get from it, it doesn't tell me beyond 'the application has requested blahblah'. This is the windows error info, I hope it's what you are looking for:

AppName: dwarf fortress.exe    AppVer: 0.0.0.0    ModName: msvcr90.dll
ModVer: 9.0.21022.8    Offset: 0005bb47

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I use the latest version of Dig Deeper on a 40d DF folder, the one that comes integrated with the Mayday tileset and is downloadable from Mike Mayday's site. I also use a small part of RantingRodent's graphics pack with it, just for the orcs, and I recently added the Zoo Mod graphics pack (not any actual other mod elements, just tilesets) for the llamas etc. I'll dig up more system info after I've gotten a chance to play a bit longer  :P Where should I upload any saves? Also, should I upload the whole game folder I use with all game and mod files in it, or just the save? Do you want the fubared save or the earlier one that crashes new saves 25% of the time?
« Last Edit: August 14, 2009, 07:00:57 pm by Saeldanya »
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Re: Dwarf Fortress: DIG DEEPER [v1.2]
« Reply #272 on: August 14, 2009, 07:26:07 pm »

Orcs strike me as rather powerful. An example:

I attempted a challenge fortress in a desert biome. Due to a lack of created wealth and goods to trade, by spring of the second year my population had grown by approximately zero. I hadn't built any defenses full stop (who does at that point?).

"A vile force of darkness has arrived!"
I'm outnumbered at least 3:1 by orc raiders. They rush in and kill everything.

Reload backup. Now, I'm not normally one for that sort of thing, but the situation struck me as so out-of-the-blue that I decided I probably deserved another try.
I build floodgates and connect them to a lever.

"A vile force of darkness has arrived!"

Close gates. Build a few rows of stone-fall traps (I'm not normally one for trap abuse either, but I still feel that the situation demanded it because, let's face it, I hadn't a hope in hell). Open gates. Orcs run straight across the traps without activating any of them, rush in, and kill everything.

Open raws. Remove [trAPAVOID] tag from creature_orc.txt. Delete data/objects. Reload backup. Build and link gates. Close gates. Build traps. Open gates.

"A vile force of darkness has arrived!"

Orcs run straight into the traps, get hit, keep running, and kill everything.

Reload backup. Build and link gates. Close gates. Build about twelve rows of traps. Open gates.

"A vile force of darkness has arrived!"

Orcs run into traps, and after a while, bleed to death. Victoly!

(literally) Ten minutes later...

"A vile force of darkness has arrived!"

SIXTY-odd orcs, all riding beak dogs, and lead by at least two master warriors.

Now, while the situation I'm talking about here is very much in the extreme, there's something in particular that bugs me about this: it's not that the orcs attacked me almost immediately (that could easily have been due to me embarking too close to one of their fortresses), nor the orcs being really bloody strong (that's how they should be). It's the [trAPAVOID] you gave them. As far as I see it, giving a race that is not remotely canny/tech-savvy/stealthy, let alone one that almost entirely ignores fear and pain, trapavoid strikes me as a bit silly. It's almost as if the orcs have been designed on the basis that they should be incredibly strong as opposed to actually acting like orcs.

The flip side of the argument is, of course, that [trAPAVOID] stops players from abusing the trap system, and puts the focus on military. Well, what about those  players who use it legitimately? I'm of the school of thought that traps have a place in fortress defense, alongside militant dwarfs.

Alright, I'll put it to you like this: there's no logical reason why the orcs should have the trapavoid tag other than to stop players from overly relying on traps. But in a sandbox-esque game like dwarf fortress, user choice is paramount - and fortress defense is one of those choices. Stopping players from using features isn't going to win anything, because it stops players who use traps legitimately from using them (and therefore makes the mod unnecessarily difficult, and shallower), and stops the players who abuse the traps system from playing altogether.

I'm aware that this post is pretty negative, and I have to say that I really like all of the additions in the mod... other than trapdodging orcs, of course.
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Phelix

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Re: Dwarf Fortress: DIG DEEPER [v1.2]
« Reply #273 on: August 14, 2009, 10:24:49 pm »

It's almost as if the orcs have been designed on the basis that they should be incredibly strong as opposed to actually acting like orcs.

Clearly they're Uruk-hai


On another note Orcs show up too early...... I mean I ALWAYS get a siege before my first year is finished.... even if Im nowhere near the orc territory.... I just got one in early winter of my first year.... so I retracted my drawbridge only too learn that I made my drawbridge RETRACTABLE instead of raising.... so I had too lock all my minature doors (and subsequently build walls behind them in case they somehow get door destroying beasts) and now Im stuck and the orcs are just hanging outside and I cant leave.... guess Ill just have too hope the elves/humans/dwarf caravans/dwarf migrants can slowly kill them all.....

or live the rest of my dwarfy life underground since I have no nobles who will kill dwarves for not making adamantite items when theres no adamantite.

Hey.... so guess who just found adamantite! and demons.... lots of demons.... was lucky that I only lost one miner too them before I got the damned hole sealed.....
« Last Edit: August 14, 2009, 11:54:12 pm by Phelix »
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abculatter_2

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Re: Dwarf Fortress: DIG DEEPER [v1.2]
« Reply #274 on: August 15, 2009, 01:47:32 am »

Orcs are not goblins. Orcs can and WILL fuck your shit up before you have time to call for your mommy.

Just dig a ditch or some other form of barrier before the first winter and you should be good.

Modding the mod is also an option.
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Don't think of it as being besieged by thralls/husks, think of it as having your own personal moat of life hating mutilated menaces

Now wall yourself in quickly

The13thRonin

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Re: Dwarf Fortress: DIG DEEPER [v1.2]
« Reply #275 on: August 15, 2009, 03:09:37 am »

You should not be able to wipe the floor with orcs.

And they have trap-avoid for a realistic reason. They're not super-sneaky just super-strong and when enraged feel no pain. As such while they're charging through your trap corridor they just bash into, break and smash everything in their path taking negligible damage. You have to remember that they're a towering race of creatures BRED for combat. Don't think Goblins when I say Orcs. Think big, angry, wanting to rip your face off trolls... Now multiply the intelligence and agility of a troll by about x5 and you have the Orcs. And yes they will try to **** you up all the time from the first year. They're not for the faint of heart. They are real siegers who will require sacrifices in blood and steel to fight off.

Trap-avoid will eventually be removed when the orcs have grappling hooks, battering rams, the ability to tunnel and advanced AI that will ignore stupid unrealistic corridors filled with traps.

Saeldanya... I need your specs...
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I'm Digging Deeper... AGAIN... You Should Too!

Dig Deeper DIAMOND - 750+ items of new content including; new plants, new creatures, new metals, new woods, new gems, new stones, new crafts and much, much more.

Saeldanya

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Re: Dwarf Fortress: DIG DEEPER [v1.2]
« Reply #276 on: August 15, 2009, 03:44:07 am »

Saeldanya... I need your specs...

Ok, here's my tech doofus attempt at trying to guess which specs matter  :-[

The whole system is a Dell computer, I havent overclocked or done anything at all to it other than install / uninstall stuff. It's a Dell Dimension 9150 ViiV PD 930 processor Dual Core (3.00 GHZ, 800FSB, 2x2MB)

OS: Windows XP Home
Graphics Card: 256MB NVIDIA GeForce 7300LE
RAM: 2048MB Dual Channel DDR2 533MHz (2x 1024) Memory
320GB (2x 160GB) 7200rpm SATA Hard Drive - Dual HDD Config - Raid 0 Stripe

If anything is missing, let me know!

When I didn't get any crashes with vanilla and Civilization Forge, I was actually playing with a slightly older version of DF - the one that comes with the afteractionreporter.com Newbie tutorial. I upgraded to 40d at the same time as I started with Dig Deeper. I'll start playing one of the other mods as well with 40d and see if I get savecrashes after a couple fortress years.
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Saeldanya

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Re: Dwarf Fortress: DIG DEEPER [v1.2]
« Reply #277 on: August 15, 2009, 12:25:45 pm »

Here's the windows report from a fresh savecrash.. this one happened not during the actual save, but during the 'cleaning game objects' afterwards. Maybe it was coincidence, but I appear to have some small success in getting less savecrashes if I quit and restart the game after every second or save. Also, maybe it doesn't matter, but this is my first and only fortress where I play on a 6x6 map. The others were all 4x4.

AppName: dwarf fortress.exe    AppVer: 0.0.0.0    ModName: ntdll.dll
ModVer: 5.1.2600.5755    Offset: 00011689

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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martinuzz

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Re: Dwarf Fortress: DIG DEEPER [v1.2]
« Reply #278 on: August 15, 2009, 01:46:35 pm »

This mod is so epic.

Really. The second the last goblin sieger dies, a new siege appears, now it's orcs.
Almost as if they're using military tactics. Send the cannonfodder first, and then, here comes the cavalry.
I never knew you could have 2 sieges in 1 season. Nice indeed.
Luckily They appear on the other side of the map than where my military was mobbing up the last goblins, or I'm sure I would have taken some losses. No more deathcount from the orcs.
A goblin ambush party killed my legendary weaponsmith though  >:(
Shortly afterwards, my legendary metalcrafter survived 3 hammerstrikes, only to be killed by the 4th. I am starting to like my Duke.
Time to finish the royal palace and bring in the King. I'm looking forward to more hammerings.
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Electro

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Re: Dwarf Fortress: DIG DEEPER [v1.2]
« Reply #279 on: August 15, 2009, 05:27:30 pm »

so then, first off, i really like this mod so far, even if all i've done is die.

i got some points though

1: Crashes, whenever i save theres a chance the game will crash. I had a crash during the autosave when reaching a new site even.

Vista, SP1, Core2Duo 2.4ghz, 2gig ram.
Mike Maydays 40d11 with DD1.2b-

2: the thing you said about removing underground farming, i'd personally say thats straying a bit too far away from the game, but thats my opinion. IF you add it, please make it so the players can easily change it back.

3: I'm trying to add in a little reaction i found in another post, but it wont work. Probably just me beeing stupid but i put this:
Code: [Select]
[REACTION:PROSPECT]
[NAME:prospect]
[REAGENT:1:STONE:NO_SUBTYPE:STONE:NO_MATGLOSS]
[PRODUCT:6:1:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:IRON]
[PRODUCT:4:1:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:COPPER]
[PRODUCT:3:1:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:GOLD]
[PRODUCT:2:1:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:ALUMINUM]
[PRODUCT:2:1:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:PLATINUM]
[PRODUCT:1:1:THREAD:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:ADAMANTINE]
[FUEL]

into my reaction_standard.txt. Then regen a whole new world, embark, build a smelter and all im seeing is "melt a metal object"

what am i doing wrong?

4: yeah please add me, also playing this so far very nice mod!
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Re: Dwarf Fortress: DIG DEEPER [v1.2]
« Reply #280 on: August 15, 2009, 05:28:59 pm »

@Electro: Needs a [SMELTER] tag.
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Electro

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Re: Dwarf Fortress: DIG DEEPER [v1.2]
« Reply #281 on: August 15, 2009, 05:31:34 pm »

well that certainly was more stupid of me than i'd expect, aswell as a much much faster reply. thank you very much
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abculatter_2

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Re: Dwarf Fortress: DIG DEEPER [v1.2]
« Reply #282 on: August 15, 2009, 05:46:41 pm »

I have an idea that could make this;
Maybe make it possible to make blackmetal by pouring water on magma somehow?
possible.

Take away the [LAVA] tag from obsidian and make a different kind of obsidian called "poured obsidian" or something which is exactly the same (maybe increase it's value to 4 or 5) but can be turned into blackmetal nuggets in the smelter at the cost of several pieces of poured obsidian.

You could also make native blackmetal more difficult to refine somehow, or make it rarer.
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Don't think of it as being besieged by thralls/husks, think of it as having your own personal moat of life hating mutilated menaces

Now wall yourself in quickly

Electro

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Re: Dwarf Fortress: DIG DEEPER [v1.2]
« Reply #283 on: August 15, 2009, 06:35:32 pm »

just noted something, Keybindings will not save between sessions. know anything about that?
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abculatter_2

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Re: Dwarf Fortress: DIG DEEPER [v1.2]
« Reply #284 on: August 15, 2009, 06:39:52 pm »

just noted something, Keybindings will not save between sessions. know anything about that?

When you set them, you have to press the "save" button.
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Don't think of it as being besieged by thralls/husks, think of it as having your own personal moat of life hating mutilated menaces

Now wall yourself in quickly
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