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[Mike Mayday]

wait... what?

[QuakeIV]

wait... what?

uh?

[Tack]

I was thinking that because of the horribly complicated combat, it would either have to be abandoned, or replaced with the steriotypically horribly toony dust cloud. though shooting could also have animations, despite the problems with reloading times. i.e. lack of.

Anyway, can you mock up some fortifications and smooth and rough walls with the fatwall tileset?

[Solifuge]

That looks adorably like Claymation. Seriously, though, I think Mike's got the essential animations covered. A simple FF1-esc 2 frame attack animation conveys all the necessary information (this unit is attacking this one with [WEAPON]). If you want to convey more complex things, like carrying, you could use the Laboring animation, with arms outstretched, perhaps layered over a Bin/Barrel/Hauled Item image, and the Barrel layered over the unit.

Alternatively, steal a note from Haven and Hearth, and situate the Hauled Item over the unit's head, with the Hauler animation being both hands in the air.

In the world where this happens, I'd love to see Dwarves with bodyparts representing worn clothing/equipment, and so on, and perhaps even wounds/missing limbs. Separate animations for Ranged Combat versus Melee combat, or even individual items, as well.

[Toady One]

I've split off several posts at the end of this discussion at the request of the OP and moved them to DF General Discussion.  Please try to stay on target!

[Mike Mayday]

That's not to say the discussion wasn't interesting I just thought it might be best to keep this strictly on topic (the previous threads on this tended to get somewhat... large).

[Solifuge]

Alright, resuming with my last blurb:

In the long run, I'd really like to see a Pseudo-3D Isometric Visualizer like this one, running parallel to DF to display the map, and act as a third-party Graphical Interface for the game. Maybe once the next version is released, the folks behind 3Dwarf, Khazad, and other Visualizers could get together with the Dwarf Manager/Companion people, and Mike Mayday, to combine the ability to read maps dynamically with the ability to interface with the program, and make the first DF GUI.

An older topic discussing this:

I know that Map Data can be retrieved from Dwarf Fortress, and interpreted (as with the 3Dwarf 3D Fortress Visualizer). Also, as with Macro-Writing Programs, I know that commands can be passed back to Dwarf Fortress program as well.

The idea is to run the program alongside Dwarf Fortress, interpreting the map data as a graphical display, and interpreting user input (including point-and-click input, such as selecting a Workshop from a drop-down menu, and mousing it over to wherever you wanted it built) back into the Dwarf Fortress program.

I imagine it looking something like this:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[dyze]

im a real fan of isometric graphics, tho i must say i really enjoy a bit "more" perspective . like in the screen below, as opposed to the
OP's pics, which looks a bit more like ultima online. its not the actual graphics i dont like, in fact they're quite nice ..its just that, to me it that perspective is a bit too much seen "from above", like the fov is too small or something. with the screen below, you get a bit more 3d feeling imo.

I like it how that looks a fair bit, actually.

If it would be of any use, I would happily donate a set of Isometric tiles I made at that perspective:

here's another nice example:

[Mike Mayday]

Dyze: and what about all the view that gets blocked by the walls? Would you really prefer having to constantly rotate the view to see everything rather than having a bit more of an "from above" view?

[CobaltKobold]

Okay, a couple of thoughts, pulling from other threads a little too. One option that I think would work is just having a plane of transparent (sky-tile) (or just a tinted plane) under the current level, tinting what's below it- but only that. It would be useful for flying units, certainly.

Also, having toggleable between All-z, z-minus, and just this z would be useful. You need slicing to see inside stuff no matter what, but being able to just look at whole thing is nice too. (So- mock up that tower with only one 'fog' edge, at each Z)

Also, hah! Someone else found how I found DF.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I must admit though I do like the scaling idea. Reminds me of this:

Source

Mayday: Well, consider SimCity vs SimCity 2000.

And, though I don't think Toady would approve much, shouldn't it be easier to make more-integrated frontends now that the I/O code is out?
edit: n/m, Footkerchief seems to intimate that the released source is insufficient to make a wholly-on frontend.

On the other hand, if you have the render/input code, you might be able to just drop some hooks/flags/whate'er to make it EASIER for a frontend...

[CobaltKobold]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Now there is comparison.

How is that compared to the current suggestions?
Will you hate it from the start because on it are engraved pictures of peasants and MICROCLINE?


Edit:

It occurs to me- a face on a cube that shows up as taking 32 along longways(like Sol's tiles do) has 256 pixels proper- you can get a 1:1 projection of 16x16 on each face then, for conversion of the rock faces.

Or, since I have an 8x8 tileset handy, turning into 16-wide (on viewing) cubes:
(hand-pixeled) demonstration
Somewhat iffy, but you can see how it'd work- I didn't tweak the way things were at all, so diagonals can break. But it's a simple 1:1 transform to face- just rearranging.

[dyze]

Dyze: and what about all the view that gets blocked by the walls? Would you really prefer having to constantly rotate the view to see everything rather than having a bit more of an "from above" view?

god no, i'd prefer as little rotating as possible. as for blocked by the walls, wouldnt "your" view actually block more, than what i suggested, since every wall section is taller?

like so:


in any case, could it not be solved best with level slicing and transparancy?

[Footkerchief]

in any case, could it not be solved best with level slicing and transparancy?

Yes.  Level slicing is an utter necessity in any case, and transparency doesn't have to look bad, as qwertyuiopas' mockup shows (although a more full-featured mockup, like one demonstrating transparency with Solifuge's tiles, would be welcome).

[TOMzors]

I must admit though I do like the scaling idea. Reminds me of this:

Source

I really like this idea, it gives the impression of a 3D world, without loosing any of the uniqueness of the original display. While the idea of an isometric or fully 3D display would be cool, and useful, a UI like this would make the game world more involving and informative to new and old players. and i think it would look cool anyway

[Jiri Petru]

The fascinating thing about this...

...is that Toady should actually be able to do it by himself.