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[G-Flex]

I was reading the changelog and noticed that squad inventory was removed.

Now, I understand the point of this. It was, after all, way too easy to carry a truckload of extra junk with you to every site action.

However, isn't it a little overboard? I mean, I'm thinking about it, and now you wouldn't even be able to bring a crowbar or can of spraypaint with you to a site action without giving up somebody's weapon slot... I can understand not carrying twelve extra sets of clothes and guns, but characters should be able to carry at least an extra weapon-item (weapon/spraypaint/whatever) with them, in my opinion. I'm just afraid that otherwise it's going to lead to hassle trying to do stuff like spraypainting the walls while on a site action, since one of your six squad members will effectively be disarmed for the duration (unless you count spraypaint as a weapon comparable to a rifle).

[LiteralKa]

However, isn't it a little overboard? I mean, I'm thinking about it, and now you wouldn't even be able to bring a crowbar or can of spraypaint with you to a site action without giving up somebody's weapon slot... I can understand not carrying twelve extra sets of clothes and guns, but characters should be able to carry at least an extra weapon-item (weapon/spraypaint/whatever) with them, in my opinion. I'm just afraid that otherwise it's going to lead to hassle trying to do stuff like spraypainting the walls while on a site action, since one of your six squad members will effectively be disarmed for the duration (unless you count spraypaint as a weapon comparable to a rifle).

Yeah, maybe a weight limit determined by the squad's collective strength, or maybe a skill.

[mainiac]

There's a thread somewhere that explains jonathans plans for primary and secondary weapons.

[G-Flex]

I think that would be adequate. "Small" items like documents make sense too, but there's little reason I can see for carrying those to a site.

[Jonathan S. Fox]

As mainiac points out, I was planning to allow you to equip small weapons and utility items as secondary weapons. I intended to made sure it was in place before considering removing the squad inventory, but I have played a couple games with things as they are now, and I think it makes an interesting factor rather than detrimental to gameplay. I'll probably still add secondary weapons, but to be perfectly honest, the priority on that feature has dropped considerably.

[G-Flex]

Interesting gameplay factors are good, but on the other hand, disallowing small secondary items seems like a way to shoehorn in an incredibly artificial and arbitrary one. I'm not saying that was your intent, or anything like that, but I can see it getting sort of annoying to the player.

[Earthquake Damage]

The problem, as I see it, is that removing the squad inventory we're familiar with and restricting us to one weapon (or tool) per person seems overtly game-y.  It seems silly that a squad of armed goons can't carry a crowbar around without leaving one of their guns at home (esp. given that not only could we do that previously, but the rest of the game is fairly complex -- this isn't an old NES game).  Do these people not have straps, pockets, backpacks, or other means of carrying things?  Hell, if they don't have enough space to carry a can of spraypaint, how can they carry half a dozen spare magazines?

[Jonathan S. Fox]

I have agreed that I want to enable you to carry secondary weapons like this eventually, but if you're going to push the idea that it's dramatically unrealistic otherwise, you may need to re-calibrate your idea of realism.

Your people are not geared up like GIs. You don't, in fact, have backpacks full of gear, belts of grenades and utility equipment, and weapons strapped under your jacket like Neo. You're a bunch of crazies walking into a building with guns in hand. You're about as geared up as these guys are. And that's with trenchcoats equipped.

Sure, you can carry nine spare magazines, or even molotovs. But just because you're allowed to do it in the game doesn't mean it's realistic.

Think about this. Pistols, knives, and magazines are small. They fit in a lot of places. Spraypaint cans are not. Try stuffing one in your clothing pockets, and you'll see what I mean. In the rare case where you find one that's big enough, it'll probably be incredibly engorged and unable to conceal the entire can. And crowbars? They are just downright large. We're talking two or more feet in length, clear trenchcoat material. I just happen to think the game is more fun when these items are treated as concealed with basic clothing. If LCS were realistic, crowbars would definitely not be on the list of valid secondary weapons.

Like I said, I intend to implement this eventually. And I may do it sooner than I would have otherwise, since folks are asking for it. But I do not believe for a second that it's unrealistic that an LCS member would choose between carrying a crowbar and carrying an assault rifle. Your people are just not that sophisticated.

[G-Flex]

I understand your point. I think the issue here is that we're working with a video game, with stricter rules than real life. You can't have one guy carrying a backpack in, or one guy with something on his belt or whatever; it's hard to get something reasonable without making too-strict rules in one direction or the other, I guess.

Your people are not geared up like GIs. You don't, in fact, have backpacks full of gear, belts of grenades and utility equipment, and weapons strapped under your jacket like Neo.

I'm glad about that, actually.

To be honest, handling squad inventories was a hassle anyway. Curses games aren't generally the best with UI anyway.

Although, actually, more annoying to me was always having to set up my squads ALL OVER again after getting raided, and also having to set up everyone's individual daily tasks after a day having them do something as a squad, or after raids, as mentioned. I think both of these things could be held in memory, so that your squads try to reform as before after a raid, and so even if you have a squad act as a squad for a site action, they should remember for the next day what to do on their own again.

[cowofdoom78963]

Your people are not geared up like GIs. You don't, in fact, have backpacks full of gear, belts of grenades and utility equipment, and weapons strapped under your jacket like Neo.

Its not that hard to conceal weapons, you dont need to be a trained GI to hide a crowbar or a spraycan. Common People have done it before with absolutely no training.

And crowbars? They are just downright large. We're talking two or more feet in length

Certainly not as hard to conceal as it sounds. I've carried a crowbar before in my pants.

A assault rifle would be hard to conceal regardless of your clothing options, and carrying any two weapons should be possible, hiding both on the other hand may not. Then it should be dependant on disguise.

[Jonathan S. Fox]

Your people are not geared up like GIs. You don't, in fact, have backpacks full of gear, belts of grenades and utility equipment, and weapons strapped under your jacket like Neo.

Its not that hard to conceal weapons, you dont need to be a trained GI to hide a crowbar or a spraycan. Common People have done it before with absolutely no training.

I'm talking about equipment, not training, and I'm responding directly and specifically to the idea that LCS members might have straps and bags for their equipment. GIs have equipment to carry large quantities of gear; you don't. Graffiti artists also conceal spraypaint all the time, but again, they'll have a backpack or similar for their cans rather than trying to stuff them in their pants or something like that.

And crowbars? They are just downright large. We're talking two or more feet in length

Certainly not as hard to conceal as it sounds. I've carried a crowbar before in my pants.

A assault rifle would be hard to conceal regardless of your clothing options, and carrying any two weapons should be possible, hiding both on the other hand may not. Then it should be dependant on disguise.

Well, there you go then -- you can imagine that as the crowbar shows up green while you're walking by police officers in the court house, it's because the crowbar is in your pants.

If you're arguing that crowbars and spraypaint should be considered concealable in the game, they already are. That's not changing. They will also be valid secondary weapons.

But if you're arguing that it's extremely unrealistic that your people aren't stuffing crowbars in their pants on a regular basis while running around with assault rifles, and that therefore I need to rush fix this breach of believability because it just ruins the experience, that's just not going to work with me.

[mainiac]

I for one, think the changes are fine.

[cowofdoom78963]

But if you're arguing that it's extremely unrealistic that your people aren't stuffing crowbars in their pants on a regular basis while running around with assault rifles, and that therefore I need to rush fix this breach of believability because it just ruins the experience, that's just not going to work with me.

Well, thats the point. I mean you should be able to carry anything as a secondary weapon, just its color being dependant on your disguise if its something that would acctualy take skill to hide(like a primary shotgun with a secondary AK-47). Otherwise the shotgun would be visible and red.

[Kanil]

Well, there you go then -- you can imagine that as the crowbar shows up green while you're walking by police officers in the court house, it's because the crowbar is in your pants.

Is that a crowbar in your pants or are you just happy to see me?

(I'm sorry.)

[cowofdoom78963]

Well, there you go then -- you can imagine that as the crowbar shows up green while you're walking by police officers in the court house, it's because the crowbar is in your pants.

Is that a crowbar in your pants or are you just happy to see me?

(I'm sorry.)

That should be a pick up line if you have a crowbar as a secondary weapon...

No wait nm, thats not how it works...