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[Great Cthulhu]

Hello everyone,

The raws in the current version of DF are missing a lot of data. For instance, many materials have no melting point, boiling point, specific heat, or density. Adding this data often doesn't do much right now (though it might; more stones will become magma-safe for instance), but if we can get the data reasonably complete, then Toady might use it for all kinds of nifty stuff in future versions of DF. Density might lead to objects floating for instance, and specific heat could lead to plate armor becoming uncomfortably hot in warmer climates. Who knows what cool stuff Toady could use this for?

Now, since researching all this data is so much boring work, it's probably not something Toady will get around to doing anytime soon. In fact, I'm sure everyone prefers that he just keep working on the stuff he's already got planned. There's no reason why we couldn't do the legwork for him though.

Towards this goal, I'm compiling a list of data that could be added to the raws. I'll also make it available as a mod, so anyone can test it. Once it's become reasonably complete, I'll offer it to Toady in the hope that he'll find it useful.

Of course, if anyone has data to contribute, that'd be extremely welcome. Specifically, anyone with access to a scientific library on geology or chemistry could add a lot of data that I simply don't have access to. Anyone with access to google could probably find stuff that I missed though.

The kind of data I'm looking for should meet the following criteria:

• It should be (reasonably) objective, not a matter of taste.
• It should preferably come with a source. A reference to a textbook or scientific journal would be great, but a link to a website such as wikipedia will do in a pinch.
• It should improve existing stuff, not add new stuff. So no new reactions or new critters, but a correction to an existing creature (for instance to its speed) could be reasonable. Most changes will probably be physics stuff though, as that's the most objective.

Here's the list containing all data so far. Here's the mod containing these changes. (Currently just the data from Molten Rocks.)

If you'd like to add data, you can edit the list directly, or if you prefer, you can just post the data in this thread and I'll add it to the list.

[0x517A5D]

Of course, if anyone has data to contribute, that'd be extremely welcome. Specifically, anyone with access to a scientific library on geology or chemistry could add a lot of data that I simply don't have access to. Anyone with access to google could probably find stuff that I missed though.

I have a few geology books, and a CRC Handbook 50th edition (c) 1969.  I don't know if the former have melting points though.  Densities, yes.  The latter mostly has MP and BP of chemical compounds, not mixtures like minerals, but it may be useful at times.

Google Books is a wonderful resource, as they have not only digitized the books, they also did a good job of OCR'ing them.  The OCR text is not directly available, but they do search it, and will show you the original page scan to read for yourself.  They only will show you a page or two, but that's all you need in this case.

[Sepis]

Molten Rocks has a head start on this; maybe you could collaborate with the author and help him finish faster?

It'd be phenomenal, as it's nice to not be solely dependent on bauxite for magma works.

[Dame de la Licorne]

I have access to a fairly extensive physics, chemistry, and biology library (courtesy of my dad and myself), so I'll see what I can do once exams are over and my thesis is turned in.

[Great Cthulhu]

Great! I set up a list containing all the data I collected. (See the first post for a link.) Anyone can edit it, so if you have something to contribute, go ahead.

Molten Rocks has a head start on this; maybe you could collaborate with the author and help him finish faster?

It'd be phenomenal, as it's nice to not be solely dependent on bauxite for magma works.

I'll definitely collaborate with the author, as I am he. Glad to hear you liked it, by the way.

[Dame de la Licorne]

Nice table.  One small suggestion for it: could you make another sheet listing all the values that are currently not present in the raws?  It would help focus the research, for people who want to help but may not be sure what they need to look for.  Then, as values are filled in, (since you seem to be volunteering to fill them in) you could transfer them from the "list of needed values" to the "list of found values".  The research wouldn't necessarily be limited to those values in the table, but it would provide a nice jumping-off point, I think.  Anyway, just a suggestion. 

[Great Cthulhu]

Heh. Well, I'd prefer if people added the values themselves. My offer was mostly because I know that some people have trouble accessing google docs.

A big TODO list would definitely be useful though. I'll see if I can produce one, but it'll probably take me a while. I'd first have to take a better look at the new raws. Seems there will be tons of new fields to provide values for.

[Rochndil]

Greetings!

I'm currently adding densities to all the materials for my MMO mod. If you have one, the PocketRef book has specific gravities for a WIDE variety of minerals. SG translates into DF density easily - just multiply by 1000.

Rochndil, who has all the layers and ores done, working on misc. minerals now...

[Sepis]

I'll definitely collaborate with the author, as I am he. Glad to hear you liked it, by the way.

Well, in that case, the two of you should be working at double the speed by now then.

Haha, I never remember to check names and never remember to think before posting.

[DaveT]

This sounds like a challenge for that new fangled wolfram alpha thing...

Types in Density of Chalk...answer 2.71g/cm^3
Types in boiling point of diamond :p...answer "data not available".


I am very definitely not a geologist but if it turns out that that is right then I'm sure its a good tool for someone to use .

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/

edit: The site might not actually be working that well today as its launch day

[Neruz]

The boiling point of diamond.

Now that's gonna be a biig number.

[i2amroy]

The boiling point of diamond.

Now that's gonna be a biig number.

If I remember correctly, the problem isn't that the number is to large, but is that at normal pressure diamonds will burst into flames before they will melt. I seem to remember reading something about a guy who tested that way back in history in my science book a few years ago.

Plus, if you were a scientist, are you going to spend thousands of dollars trying to find the melting point of a substance that won't melt at normal pressure anyways.

[Eagleon]

3550 degrees celsius at normal pressure, according to wikipedia.

I believe that diamond will indeed burn before that point, but in a vacuum it's impossible. No oxygen means oxidation isn't possible, means burnination cannot happen. Some materials will transition directly from solid to gas at normal pressure, though. Those are the ones that won't need melting points

Plus, if you were a scientist, are you going to spend thousands of dollars trying to find the melting point of a substance that won't melt at normal pressure anyways.

You obviously have never heard of the Ig Nobel, hehe. http://improbable.com/ig/

[Great Cthulhu]

I'm currently adding densities to all the materials for my MMO mod. If you have one, the PocketRef book has specific gravities for a WIDE variety of minerals. SG translates into DF density easily - just multiply by 1000.

Rochndil, who has all the layers and ores done, working on misc. minerals now...

Oooh. I don't have one of those PocketRef, but I'm very interested in all that data.

This sounds like a challenge for that new fangled wolfram alpha thing...

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/

Great suggestion! I'm definitely going to give that a spin.

I believe that diamond will indeed burn before that point [...]

I believe you're right. The burning thing is a bit controversial in DF though. In the thread for the Molten Rocks mod it was brought up that limestone would probably ignite when brought into contact with magma. However, the consensus was that this wouldn't be fun with the way this is currently implemented in DF.

I guess we could still provide Toady with the data though.

[The13thRonin]

I fully support this project and have included it in my new modification Dwarf Fortress DIG DEEPER located here: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=35736.0

Keep up the good work guys  !