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Total Members Voted: 257

[Gantolandon]

That's exactly what I mean by insta-banning, a ban without a second chance. I would NEVER ban someone without at least checking whether he did something wrong. Also, like I said, I'll abide by the rule of not banning anyone without checking with another admin.

Have we ever banned a person without at least checking? I can't honestly remember such an event.

Y'see, lots of griefers take the toxin researcher job just to easily make bombs.

It's not about lazy admins. It's about griefing mingefags.

We could just, create a new variable that controls bomb making.

But it doesn't make sense, as it won't stop griefers. It's not that making a bomb is the only way to grief. It's not about fucking the entire station up, it's just disruption of normal roleplaying and forcing the other players to concentrate on a new problem, irrelevant to the current game mode. To do this, it just takes an assistant with a wirecutter, or a sheet of metal to construct a fuckload of walls. I view the latter even more disruptive than bombing the station, because it's so unrealistic and ridiculous it spoils roleplaying instantly.

[Yanlin]

Just because fixing one problem doesn't fix a fuckload of other more severe problems doesn't mean the original problem should not be fixed.

[Gantolandon]

But our original problem are griefers, not bombs. The latter are completely safe in the hands of a sane player. They are used by griefers because they are easy to manufacture and they can do much havoc in relatively short time. It doesn't mean that banning bombs for everyone but Syndicate can solve this problem. And, in fact, it would create some more.

• A way to identify a traitor with 100% accuracy. Did he make a bomb? He is a traitor, problem solved.
• Toxin Researcher job would have even less sense than before. A bomb could sometimes come handy in case of the AI being a traitor, or as a way to separate the blob from the rest of the station. But really, what's the point of taking a job where you require a special permission from admin to even do something?
• It eventually would ensure that no one ever uses a bomb. Come on, who would want to beg the admin to let him use a game feature?

[Jackrabbit]

I didn't know you could weld yourself into closets! This game rules.

[beorn080]

Also, I've occasionally made bombs for extremely useful, non explosive uses. CO2 bombs to put out fires, N2O bombs to knock out a room where someone has broken a station law, Air bombs to quickly fill a room with air. Hell, lets take genetics and chemistry out too. You can make mustard gas and acid, both of which have no real use other then to piss other players off. And genetics, gee fire shield and hulk and telekinesis, none of those are needed to RP. And atmos, well they can let plasma into the pipes and set the whole station on fire that should go. Medbay, well they have toxins and sleep toxins, which they could use instead of healing a person, Medics are gone. Captain and the heads get easy access to lasers, gee fingerprint less killing, the lasers should go. While we're at it, engineering can cut some holes to the rest of the station in the engine before lighting it, that should go. Security can pretty much murder unoppposed so that should go.

Well, only things I can see that should be left are assistant, barman, clown, janitor, and chaplain. Sounds like a fun game.

[Jackrabbit]

Oh, wait, I'm not wielded in. Oh well, it was funny jumping out at people. Being an assistant is so cool.

[Micro102]

beorn, i agree with you up to atmos....you went downhill from there.

greifers will find ways to greif, and removing stuff will also give them more ways to greif.......leave things as they areand get stricter admins

[beorn080]

I was making a point that EVERY job except those I named have ways to easily grief. Even those I named can be made really annoying. I was showing the fallacy of blocking jobs to prevent griefing.

[Micro102]

not really, atmos can pump plasma into the pipes, but he has to find the ent in a room and trace its pipe back to the dispenser which he then also needs to activate, and then there is a problem with the mass flow in the pipes. i cant figure out why but the farther it goes the weaker it gets, so you cant gas anything past the northern external airlock. unless you maybe wait a half an hour.

and the AI just needs to see that switch turned on and its over


for the doctor, you need to use syringes, which will take a few seconds to inject someone with them and unless they are afk its pointless to even try.

i also dont think they have just plain toxins, just sleep toxins and anti toxins. which in eccessive amounts can lead to toxicity. unless you somehow get your hands on one of the chemistry chemicals...if those even do anything when injected

[beorn080]

They have plain toxins. I meant they can kill instead of heal when people are brought to them. Atmos is real easy to work with, especially if you know how. Plus atmos can activate siphons in certain areas and make a vacuum.

[Sowelu]

In pretty much every goonstation game, and in fact I might as well generalize that to every game over twenty people, one of the atmos people is a griefer trying to make the game more interesting.  I mean, four atmos people?  Why would you need that many?  About 25% of the people who go atmos, do it to cause havoc.  And if you can set up a CO2 leak that won't actually go into effect for half an hour game time, what could be better for causing havoc?

Just sayin'.  Atmospherics WORKS by default, and someone needs an atmo card to break it.  There's no problems in the rest of the station that you can fix through sheer atmo-engineering-ability that an assistant can't do just as well.  The only reason to go atmospherics--and get access the atmospherics lab--is if you want to sabotage the lab.

[Floirt]

Anyways, screw bomb-logging and this shit. Instead I'm expanding Toxins. Mwahahahaha.

Any useful suggestions? I'm thinking of making it a separate module from the station, and maybe give it a way to make a makeshift engine of sorts. And more rooms and pipes for gas stuff.

[beorn080]

Thank god our coder has some sanity to him. I mean, bombs are to SS13 as Magma floods are to DF.

For bombs, I would really just recommend making it easier to work with the "nonlethal" gasses. Perhaps different sorts of ignitors, such as spreaders which release the gas over say a 5X5 area instantly but don't actually ignite it, or maybe a directional sprayer, which would spray a cone of gas in the indicated direction. Also, a makeable bomb casing that would hold the gas instead of just plasma cans. That always pisses me off to no end that the only thing I can strap an ignitor/trigger to is a plasma can. Damnit, I want to strap it to a big plasma can.

[Floirt]

You mean, like, a canister? By the by, I'll do empty canisters and tanks, don't worry. With separate icons! I'll just do, like, recolors. As for "spray bombs", that's currently not possible within the current laws or physics, or I'd have to make a magic gas gun. And for spreaders, just don't weld your bomb.

If someone could post, like, a drawing of what Toxins would look like fore you, that'be nice. I've currently been thinking of mass-drivers to link the station and toxins, and keeping the Toxins Test Chambers, only sideways at the top-left, to get more space. Sounds like the church won't have a nice view on deep space anymore.

[Micro102]

They have plain toxins. I meant they can kill instead of heal when people are brought to them. Atmos is real easy to work with, especially if you know how. Plus atmos can activate siphons in certain areas and make a vacuum.

where are these plain toxins??? ive never seen them. And its not excatly something you can do sneakly. i also have ne knowledge of being able to activate siphons from atmos.

also, mind telling me how to boost the mass flow in the vents then?