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[rickvoid]

Huh. I loved Brave New World. I think Huxley was in favor of the happiness-oriented culture. I mean, just because he focused on the savage doesn't mean that he agreed with him.

My English teacher (and the wikipedia article) disagree with you there. He was trying to paint a grim, dystopian view of the future. The fact that he failed so badly is one of the bits that annoyed me about the book.

I don't trust either of those sources. At all.

In fact, I am now absolutely sure that you, your mouthbreathing teacher, and all the people who wrote that on Wikipedia are idiots. There's no way that Huxley could have failed so badly to portray his new society the way he wanted it.

It's clear that he saw it as stupid and slightly repulsive, but I cannot fathom that he saw it as evil. I declare jihad.

I support this Jihad and side along inaluct 

Ugh. Had to read this for Advanced Placement English. Absolutely horrific. I agree with those above who suggested Huxley thought this was all a great idea. As for the Savage, I saw him as being used as the "intolerant ignorant" who jumps off the deep end when confronted with the nightmare the rest of the world has become. Typical elitist liberal garbage.

BTW, every English teacher I've ever had was an absolute moron. Of the "Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn were gay" variety. Hell, I think I hated every book I read in that damn class, featuring "Ishmael" (Telepathic gorilla (...) declares religion, specifically Christianity, and white people to be the cause of the fall of human society. I cheered when the fucking thing died at the end.), Brave New World, Death of a Salesman, The Scarlet Letter, The Color of Water, and All the Kings Men. Stupid, god-awful fucking books.

Anything on Alabama's school reading list. It's all about racism.

People around here think they are still hated, but all the racism is against Caucasians.
My ancestors' crimes are not my own. I shall not be damned by your perceived oppression.

Does anyone else have the same problem?

Part of me doesn't want to touch this on these forums.
Another part of me is screaming "YES"!

[Gorjo MacGrymm]

The Good Earth by Pearl S Buck.  *shudder ^10*

[Skooma]

Middlemarch by George Eliot.

5 pages in and I couldn't figure out why the hell I should care.

[Demetrious]

Ugh. Had to read this for Advanced Placement English. Absolutely horrific. I agree with those above who suggested Huxley thought this was all a great idea. As for the Savage, I saw him as being used as the "intolerant ignorant" who jumps off the deep end when confronted with the nightmare the rest of the world has become. Typical elitist liberal garbage.

RAGE

You have that shit so bass ackwards it isn't funny. Bass. Ackwards. Especially when you call it "typical elitist liberal garbage;" the irony my god it burns why does it burn make it stop oh god. I mean, let's review: the future is a placid place where everybody agrees with each other; because everybody is kept occupied by unrestrained sex and drug use, and anything that could be controversial at all, including any kind of literature or philosophy, is banned. (Ultimate political correctness.) If you're a conservative, then "Brave New World" reads like a description of the culmination of left-wing policies. I'm not sure how you read "Brave New World" as a kudos to the society presented, given that the most honorable and noble character- the Savage, who is more educated, more dignified, and more moral then anybody else in the book- wastes himself rather then live with the horror of that society.

Don't be thrown off by Huxley's whining about "Our Ford" and consumerism. That seemed to be less "omg haet capitalism" and more pointing out that consumerism was being mis-used. Ala the sports games- baseball is bad because it only uses a stick and a ball; most of the fun is not something that can be bought off the shelf; but is reliant on interaction with other people, which in turn makes one dependent on others, forms friendships, etc. "Fun," much like the soma drugs, was engineered to be something devoid of any real emotional meaning- just push-button gratification, and equipment-intensive games aided that. Imagine Huxley's response to modern video games- he'd find something like Minesweeper or even Halo to be repulsive, but find World of Warcraft admirable. Both are the results of blatant consumerism, but one isolates a person in their own little world, while the other brings them together (HOW I MINE FOR FISH nonwithstanding.)

BTW, every English teacher I've ever had was an absolute moron. Of the "Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn were gay" variety. Hell, I think I hated every book I read in that damn class, featuring "Ishmael" (Telepathic gorilla (...) declares religion, specifically Christianity, and white people to be the cause of the fall of human society.

THIS. As a fellow survivor of AP English, I sympathize with you greatly, though I think I suffered more because I had to deal with Toni Morrison's "Beloved." Yes, slavery was bad I get it already. I hated Beloved on so many levels, for so many reasons. To begin with, by page seven we've already got bestiality. Page seven. Now, I'm not exactly a prude, or squeamish (I play dwarf fortress after all,) but page seven? Seriously? Couldn't hold that back a little longer?

And then there was all the allegories and the half-assed metaphysics. So this woman shows up who is like totally this manifestation of the dead baby ghost and... something? And oh hey really shitty stream of consciousness chapter which magically switches the viewpoint to some random slave on a slaver ship, which is apparently supposed to expand the scope of the book from one woman's story to the entire slave population, oh dear. Morrison said something about the book being a monument to all the slaves ever, but her story really wasn't focused on such a broad mandate and all attempts to make it do so just tore it apart. Which just magnifies the fact that her use of metaphysical elements was just ham-handed. I loathed Wuthering Heights, but at least Bronte had the technical skill to pull off some truly creepy shit in that regard. I can recognize it as a masterpiece based on Bronte's technical skill alone, even if the plot is bunk, but Morrision? Get out. Get out and never come back.

Good: The Salvation War: Armageddon (online, pure epic win)

Hmmm. Is that the one at stardestroyer.net where hells tridents <  155mm big bore artillery?

[Jackrabbit]

NOOOOO!

Let us not argue!

Is that even grammatically correct? Ah well.

[Demetrious]

NOOOOO!

Let us not argue!

Is that even grammatically correct? Ah well.

It's not arguing! It's intelligent discussion! The above poster was able to hack AP English so I assume he'll be able to back up his claims with interesting theories.

Literature discussion, do you speak it!?

[Jackrabbit]

NOOOOO!

Let us not argue!

Is that even grammatically correct? Ah well.

It's not arguing! It's intelligent discussion! The above poster was able to hack AP English so I assume he'll be able to back up his claims with interesting theories.

Literature discussion, do you speak it!?

Fair point.

[rickvoid]

Well, I guess I have to point out that at no point does the author suggest he is in agreement with the Savage's decision to off himself. But for god's sake please don't make me drag this book out again. Especially considering the current state of the nation... 

And you are correct, as a conservative myself this book filled me with a kind of horror that I have difficulty describing here. And not just from reading it, from being looked at oddly by those whom I was taking the class with, including the teacher, when I even suggested that there was something wrong with that society.

I recommend taking a look through his wiki biography. This is my personal favorite bit:

On 21 October 1949, Huxley wrote to George Orwell, author of Nineteen Eighty-Four, congratulating Orwell on "how fine and how profoundly important the book is." In his letter to Orwell, he predicted that "Within the next generation I believe that the world's leaders will discover that infant conditioning and narco-hypnosis are more efficient, as instruments of government, than clubs and prisons, and that the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience."

*shudder*

[Demetrious]

And you are correct, as a conservative myself this book filled me with a kind of horror that I have difficulty describing here. And not just from reading it, from being looked at oddly by those whom I was taking the class with, including the teacher, when I even suggested that there was something wrong with that society.

Your goddamn teacher thought that Brave New World was a good place!? I don't think that's because she was left wing, I think at that point it's outright stupidity. The AP English teacher at my high school is a real piece of work in that regard; it pains me to know that more exist.

Re: the quote- indeed. I wrote a rather angry column for my school newspaper that led with the line "These days, the school is trying to get us to follow these new 'Habits of Mind' such as tolerance and excellence. They must have ran out of room on the poster, because conspicuously absent is the last habit of mind they've been trying to force-feed me all year- Hate America First." And mind you, the bias in the school system isn't some systematic conspiracy to be found in the teachers- that varies widely by teacher, on a personal basis- it's in the materials they're given to work with. Like the history textbook that had an entire chapter on "American Imperialism." Later in that class, learning about the 1950s, we were told again and again and again- by the book and supplemental materials- that the fifties was apparently all about "CONFORMISM" with the dominant patriarchal consumer culture. I shit you not. That entire period in American history was characterized with snippy poems from the alcoholic suicidal artistes of the age, who sniffed at "all the little houses, all made of ticky-tacky."

Thus was characterized the unprecedented prosperity and wealth of 1950s America, for a generation that had grown up during the Depression. Le sigh.

So back on topic, that history book REALLY annoyed me.

[inaluct]

I read a few sentences of one of your posts, Demetrious. Reading that gave me a powerful hankering for some Transatlantic Bumblepuppy or whatever the hell that game was.

Man, if I were living in that society, I'd totally play that. All the time.

[Antioch]

Your goddamn teacher thought that Brave New World was a good place!? I don't think that's because she was left wing, I think at that point it's outright stupidity. The AP English teacher at my high school is a real piece of work in that regard; it pains me to know that more exist.

The idea is not stupid, it is a world without poverty, crime and war and everyone is happy. If you compare it to our current world where thousands of people die every day because of malnutrition and war it is a paradise.

[Demetrious]

Your goddamn teacher thought that Brave New World was a good place!? I don't think that's because she was left wing, I think at that point it's outright stupidity. The AP English teacher at my high school is a real piece of work in that regard; it pains me to know that more exist.

The idea is not stupid, it is a world without poverty, crime and war and everyone is happy. If you compare it to our current world where thousands of people die every day because of malnutrition and war it is a paradise.

"Happy?" If drugged out of your mind, rutting like animals is happiness. No art, no meaningful emotion. The entire world consists of opium and shitty porn plots involving pizza delivery men.

Knock yourself out.

[Jackrabbit]

Your goddamn teacher thought that Brave New World was a good place!? I don't think that's because she was left wing, I think at that point it's outright stupidity. The AP English teacher at my high school is a real piece of work in that regard; it pains me to know that more exist.

The idea is not stupid, it is a world without poverty, crime and war and everyone is happy. If you compare it to our current world where thousands of people die every day because of malnutrition and war it is a paradise.

"Happy?" If drugged out of your mind, rutting like animals is happiness. No art, no meaningful emotion. The entire world consists of opium and shitty porn plots involving pizza delivery men.

Knock yourself out.

Doesn't sound too bad, provided I'm too drugged to care.

[Alexhans]

Your goddamn teacher thought that Brave New World was a good place!? I don't think that's because she was left wing, I think at that point it's outright stupidity. The AP English teacher at my high school is a real piece of work in that regard; it pains me to know that more exist.

The idea is not stupid, it is a world without poverty, crime and war and everyone is happy. If you compare it to our current world where thousands of people die every day because of malnutrition and war it is a paradise.

Read fahrenheit 451... Watch Equilibrium...

That's not paradise... That's WRONG!

I WANT freedom.  Not pretending (Or being forced to pretend) happiness.

[Awayfarer]

@Rickvoid: Death of a Salesman was a play. You shouldn't enjoy reading it.

This is something that bothers me about many English courses. Plays are being presented without the disclaimer, "this is a script. It is not a complete work."

I really feel that the reason why students get irritated by Shakespeare--and carry that irritation into their adult lives--is that 90% of the time they're only being taught the dry text. It'd be like being told "Oh, you should read Terminator 2." Without spectacle and without a text being brought to life through human speech, at least half of what made those productions "good" is missing.