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Author Topic: Implementation of proper (realistic) cavalry, and dwarven cavalry.  (Read 1967 times)

chucks

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Re: Implementation of proper (realistic) cavalry, and dwarven cavalry.
« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2009, 02:41:08 pm »

Playable civilization and races mods are a very good point, and one that I am often quick to forget.  Perhaps the inclusion of some sort of racial attribute to represent racial affinity to riding mounted creatures and another creature tag to represent relative difficulty to tame/train/ride a species of creatures would help.  In my understanding of Tolkien and Gygax fantasy worlds, elves would have a very high mount affinity giving them the ability to easily tame and train and ride creatures, humans would have a moderate mount affinity showing that they can tame/train/ride animals with only a little difficulty, and dwarves would have a very low mount affinity representing their innate difficulty of training and riding creatures without making the task completely impossible.

Also, some races could have specific affinities to specific animals.  You could give goblins and orc a very low mount affinity, but a high mount affinity with wolves or beakdogs or other appropriate creatures.  There might be better ways to represent this, but it would be a very realistic way of showing that some races are more closely aligned to certain animal species than other races.
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Byakugan01

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Re: Implementation of proper (realistic) cavalry, and dwarven cavalry.
« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2009, 04:13:46 pm »

Well, they could be made to function as a "container" of sorts, or at least be set to "carry" a container on them-that would also allow them to store multiple logs, plants, or fish. It could be what happens when a "civilian" dwarf is assigned a "draft animal" which should be a separate option than training for a warmount. (BTW, I was thinking specifically of hauling stone and ore-which can get very time consuming)

The point about the difficulty of a pony carrying a rider wearing armor while being armored itself (particularly a problem with iron since it is so heavy) is well-made. However, if dwarves did use them-or ANY-mount in warfare, then they probably would have taken the route used by us and bred different standards of horses for different uses (see here. Form is meant to fit function, after all-and stone is quite heavy to pull, in any case (though, admittedly, iron plate, a rider, and its own armor might be too much). That being said, the need to find a properly dwarfy mount is still necessary. I think there are several necessary qualities a mount should have-it should not be too fast, it should be properly dangerous-potentially to dwarves themselves, be able to deal with the conditions found where dwarves are to be found (namely, mountains and their foothills), be strong enough to put up with the weight of a rider with proper breeding (anything downwards of a bear might not be able to handle a fully armored rider in iron while wearing its own armor), and be relatively easy to maintain. If possible, it should also be able to be used.

fake edit: In the light of the above post, I think this is a good idea. In this light, my below ideas could serve as suggestions for decent-or high-affinity mounts for dwarves?

Boars are not entirely unreasonable-they a fairly strong animals, their tusks would suggest a use in war if tamed, are easy to feed (boars, like pigs, will eat pretty much ANYTHING they can), would be easy to breed, would be naturally encountered by dwarves gathering surface materials, and are, in fact, dangerous animals. Furthermore, given the right conditions they can grow quite large. As a bonus, they naturally menace with their tusks. At the same time, a boar is not quite as fast as a horse, and due to having cloven hooves it probably will deal with difficult terrain better-a necessity in the conditions of the mines and slopes of the mountain homes. Tusks would also give them an edge against horses. Downside: might be very erratic mounts, difficult to control. Also the chance of the males injuring each other when fighting. On the plus side of their agression, would also make them great for war. *Boar McLoveselfblood gores the elf's abdomen with his tusks!* *It is disemboweled!* (As a note about just how dangerous a boar is...wolves generally avoid them unless they have difficulty finding something else. The risk factor is quite high). Probably the most dwarfy mount I can think of, IMO. Also have the bonus of large litter sizes.

 A form of mountain goat would also not be unreasonable. These have even better traction than boars or ponies, and are almost certain to be encountered by dwarves. Plus, like a boar, they might also be bred for meat, and their ability to maneuver in rocky terrain (where horse and ponies are, let's face it, severely handicapped) would be invaluable to dwarves just for hauling. On the downside, they might not be anywhere near as strong as a boar, would take more breeding to accommodate a rider, and are not anywhere near being as aggressive as boars. While a boar can fight of wolves, a mountain goat is their lunch (if they can catch it). On the plus side, being easier to handle means they would be potentially easier to control, and by extension easier to train...if that dwarfy?

Bears. Enough said. More as an "elite" or champion mount, to be honest-I can't see dwarves bothering to try domesticating them except for that purpose. They're extremely dangerous, predatory, and very BIG-which are, to be fair, qualities a champion would want in their mount, given the advantages it gives in battle. An animal that can take several gunshots to the head and keep on going for a time is no laughing matter when the most your opponent has are bows. Still, not practical except for champions-and then they need to be allowed to have things assigned to them, or autoselect a mount. Also slower to grow up compared to the other two so far.

Giant Rats
-domesticated and less dangerous than their normally aggressive cousins, these creatures would be perfectly at home in the mines, would be able to be used as haulers, and would be easily able to cope with rocky terrain given their natural habitat in chasms-which means dwarves would be bound to encounter them sooner or latter. Large litters mean they could double as livestock (which makes far more sense than them having cattle or horses, given the rocky terrain of the mountains-though goats work just as well), while their aggressiveness (which we already are familiar with) means they are decent for war, though not nearly as suited as the bear or the boar. Perhaps the slowest of the mounts so far, they might be the least likely to induce a stream of dwarven vomit when they charge, plus the psychological effect of being attacked by giant, armored rats who menace with gnawed spikes of elf bone would be a nice bonus. 

Cave Lizards
-same as above, but even slower, may be able to support more weight, and overall a possible improvement-may or may not be cold-blooded. Imagine a dragon in miniature, without wings, fire or the ability to speak.

BTW, I believe that the dwarves in the Inheritance trilogy (now going to be four books) do ride a form of mountain goat, so it's not entirely unheard of.

Edit :Any other ideas? Also, suggestions on the ideas for the cavalry mechanics are also welcome.
Do try and avoid things known for slaughtering military dwarves-one of the reasons I avoided mention of dragons and other things.

« Last Edit: May 15, 2009, 01:57:58 pm by Byakugan01 »
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From Mr. Welch's 1350 things he is not allowed to do in a RPG:
148. There is no Gnomish Deathgrip, and even if there was, it wouldn't involve tongs.
171. My character's dying words are not allowed to be "Hastur, Hastur, Hastur"
218. No matter my alignment, organizing halfling pit fights is a violation.
231. I am not allowed to do anything that would make a Sith Lord cry.
240. Any character with more than three skills specializing in chainsaw is vetoed.

sonerohi

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Re: Implementation of proper (realistic) cavalry, and dwarven cavalry.
« Reply #17 on: May 14, 2009, 10:04:07 pm »

Giant Cave Spiders would be a decidely dwarven mount. It should barely be able to carry an unarmed,unarmored dwarf, being used for sheer speed and maneuvarability as a means of effective shock troops. Wrestlers ride in and jump off onto their target, letting the spider go free to attack. The styles of fighting even complement each other. Spider webs a foe making it easier for the wrestler to go for vital areas that can't be gaurded due to webs.
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Byakugan01

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Re: Implementation of proper (realistic) cavalry, and dwarven cavalry.
« Reply #18 on: May 17, 2009, 09:44:04 am »

Okay, I just had an absolutely insane idea for dwarven cavalry. First, make it possible for stark raving mad to have different effects. Second, cause all "boar riders" or whatever they ride (make sure the mount is dwarfy) to go stark raving mad as they increase in skill. They then function as a sort of dwarven berserkgang, who drink only the blood of their enemies...and feast on their corpses. My mental image is of a dwarf screamming like a madman as he charges into battle, eyes practically popping out of his head, froth flying from his mouth, waving a oversize axe around riding an equally insane mount. In other words, you have an army of madmen. If dwarves hate to ride, then they would definitely be seen as mad from thee point of view of other dwarves.
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From Mr. Welch's 1350 things he is not allowed to do in a RPG:
148. There is no Gnomish Deathgrip, and even if there was, it wouldn't involve tongs.
171. My character's dying words are not allowed to be "Hastur, Hastur, Hastur"
218. No matter my alignment, organizing halfling pit fights is a violation.
231. I am not allowed to do anything that would make a Sith Lord cry.
240. Any character with more than three skills specializing in chainsaw is vetoed.
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