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[Aquillion]

How exactly would you order your soldiers to retrieve one specific artifact, though?  It seems to me that that's likely to be a perfectly valid (perhaps even relatively common) reason for a raid -- get back the lost artifact or whatever.  You shouldn't have to kill absolutely everyone present and clear a perfectly empty path that a civilian can walk through just to have your soldiers burst in, grab an artifact and run off with it.

[Drake1500]

How exactly would you order your soldiers to retrieve one specific artifact, though?  It seems to me that that's likely to be a perfectly valid (perhaps even relatively common) reason for a raid -- get back the lost artifact or whatever.  You shouldn't have to kill absolutely everyone present and clear a perfectly empty path that a civilian can walk through just to have your soldiers burst in, grab an artifact and run off with it.

Hmmm... I see your point. Maybe, when embarking on a raid, there is a certain mission selected (include the common ones like "retrieve artifact" or "steal [insert item/item group here]")? Any soldiers nearby a mission objective will attempt to complete it. In the case of stealing food, they would just grab some food and stuff it in their backpack. In the case of stealing other stuff, they'd grab it and run to the edge of the map.

Yeah, this is not the best suggestion for this, but I still don't want to have to control each dwarf individually. Maybe instead of every dwarf, you command the leaders of the squads? I'm envisioning large-scale raids here, by the way, with 5+ squads of minimum 5 dwarves each. That's a minimum of 25 dwarves. I don't want to control them all individually.

[Idiom]

I never meant for this to be THE system for invading armies, but alongside the "Adventure Mode" and "Fortress Mode" you'd have "Turn-Based Tactical Mode". It's a very popular mode of play and I think could attract better people than the usual immigrants. Possibly even load historical data from the history and you could lead that invasion yourself for a challenge (obviously not changing history, just seeing if you could best Urist McNapoleon's results).

this is very micromanagement, when what we need is macromanagement....
For raids, you could still control the individual squads the same way you do at home; position them and such. I see no problem with the current system for raids.

But then all you have is a bunch of g's and bearded similes collide on screen with a spray of red. Raiding forts would be nothing but a meat grinder. Whoever has more crossbowmen wins. The home team has fortifications and turrets and complex traps, and then what does the away team have? Nothing but a mash of guys to throw up against the gates repeatedly. The real way to take down fortified positions is with organization (Tunneler's need to be in first I think at the very least). Can't have that in strictly macromanagment.

Am I saying we should scrap the current system? Hell no. It's downright convenient in many cases, yes, but it isn't very flexible or engaging. The ability to swap from macro pause/realtime to micro turnbased... there's the occasion when you need a mallet and the occasion when you need tweezers for the best effect. I want both tools. You don't have to use them both, but there's times when one is more useful than the other.

[Hungry]

Although I dont aprove of first person mode ever being made, I do have to note that adventure elements can be taken into fortress mode for those who supermicro manage, and probable add some elements to it that suit a more "green" player, like...well I'll run down a few situations.

A. you want to kill a dwarven noble for demanding 2 cinnibar mugs, so you grab urist in the unit selection menu and click the unit control button or maybe a possess button(bear with me) you equip him with that axe you just made for him, and slay that evil oppressive noble in the cold blood, leaving him, urist comes back as if he was possessed and you get to smile, but poor urist gets saddened from the experience (murdered someone while possessed?).

B. you feel your fortress is reached its end and you are planning to start anew, or not, you grab your champion Dwarfy the Boxslayer and grab as many artifacts as he may, walking to the edge a message appears telling you that you are leaving the fortress and if you would like to(save), accepting you are switched to adventure mode and you go to destroy that goblin outpost that has been seigeing you forever... to come back a hero.

C. (this one is more for the green) you dont know what a rock is best used for so you grab a dwarf and (survey) the rock giving a dwarfs list of rocks best uses.

this is just a small list of some perks to it....OK...=P

[Seryntas]

One of the things I enjoy most about Dwarf Fortress is that I can't just take a dwarf and hand him most orders.  If something like this was added (and, since the system just described is actually the standard for strategy games, it's not like it couldn't have been considered), I think I speak for most DF players when I say that it would diminish a lot of the challenge that makes the game appealing.

And there's already a way to find out what a rock does.  You can check the Stone menu by hitting 'z' and selecting Stone.

[Drake1500]

One of the things I enjoy most about Dwarf Fortress is that I can't just take a dwarf and hand him most orders.  If something like this was added (and, since the system just described is actually the standard for strategy games, it's not like it couldn't have been considered), I think I speak for most DF players when I say that it would diminish a lot of the challenge that makes the game appealing.

This was exactly my problem with the suggestion too. Which is why I was adding my two cents, which likely don't add up to much at all, but whatever.

[zchris13]

A new mode. Not fortress mode, right?  I'm all for that.  Controlling raiding parties would be really fun.  It's somewhere in the middle ground between Adventure mode and Fortress mode, which is always a good thing.

I think most of the protest comes from people who misunderstand the OP's intentions, although I'll defer that call to him, of course.


How can squad control outside Fort mode be a bad thing? I would greatly enjoy it.

[Idiom]

Although I dont aprove of first person mode ever being made

THIS IS NOT 1ST PERSON.

One of the things I enjoy most about Dwarf Fortress is that I can't just take a dwarf and hand him most orders.  If something like this was added (and, since the system just described is actually the standard for strategy games, it's not like it couldn't have been considered), I think I speak for most DF players when I say that it would diminish a lot of the challenge that makes the game appealing.

This was exactly my problem with the suggestion too. Which is why I was adding my two cents, which likely don't add up to much at all, but whatever.

THIS IS NOT IN FORTRESS MODE.

THIS IS MODIFIED ADVENTURE MODE.

Ignore Drake1500. He doesn't even know what I was referencing to.

A new mode. Not fortress mode, right?  I'm all for that.  Controlling raiding parties would be really fun.  It's somewhere in the middle ground between Adventure mode and Fortress mode, which is always a good thing.

I think most of the protest comes from people who misunderstand the OP's intentions, although I'll defer that call to him, of course.


How can squad control outside Fort mode be a bad thing? I would greatly enjoy it.

Thank you!

[Urist McDetective]

Try not to let it get to you if some people are apt to jump the gun on new ideas.
I really enjoyed X-Com. When I think of what's in store for DF, however, these arcs seem to cover the bases you're looking for.
The Army Arc looks like its going to throw awesome at any naysayers ... in the left kidney.

ARMY ARC:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

 You should be able to control patrols and then armies in dwarf mode. The adventurer should be able to both go with and command armies. In dwarf mode, you should have the option to control your individual patrol members as you would in adventure mode. Entities should war with each other from bandit and monster raids to full fledged wars. Upset entities could patrol near their sites, leading to new wilderness encounters etc.

CARAVAN ARC:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

 As a prelude to armies, we'll have caravans actually move around the world map rather than just appear at your outpost. They'll move between each city on the map, though we'll try to stay away from supporting a real economy for the time being. You should be able to find items you traded in your fortress in adventure mode, and a caravan could come to your fortress with an adventure mode item.

DIPLOMACY ARC:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

There should be a lot more diplomacy between your outpost and the outside world, especially as you get more nobles.

AFFILIATION ARC:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

You should be able to rise to the top of an entity (civilization, town, etc.) in adventure mode. While the full set of responsibilities that would entail will have to wait, it should at least be possible to attain this status for the first version. You should be able to do things for individuals. This could earn you favors from sleeping in their home and food gifts all the way to a marriage offer. There can be smaller entities like bandits and cults which could offer more unsavory tasks for similar privileges (steal, kill, kidnap, etc.). Can earn right to sleep in the large hall in town if you've become affiliated with them, but vagrancy needs to be punished and the camping must be harsher before this is meaningful.

*edited to be less of an arse ... hopefully*

[Drake1500]

Idiom, I apologize for misunderstanding you and getting the wrong idea about what you suggested, but maybe those words are a bit harsh, don't you think?

Urist, thanks for bringing up what Toady has in store. If he already has this planned, then I will no longer argue against it. In all honesty, I just don't have the time to go through all the future devs (and besides, I do like surprises too).

In light of these two comments (and so that there will be no flame war) I will make no further posts in this topic. So please, don't ask me any questions here; they will not be answered.

[Aquillion]

In light of these two comments (and so that there will be no flame war) I will make no further posts in this topic. So please, don't ask me any questions here; they will not be answered.

Are you sure?

[Urist McDetective]

 
Now you're just teasing him.
When you think of it, the current game is closer to X-Com: Apocalypse than Enemy Unknown or TFTD - not really turn based, Apoc & DF both allow you to pause and direct the action. (though with different approaches)
X-Com Apoc also lets you continue ordering while unpaused via speed settings & a pause button.