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[Aquillion]

What is a flickering magma forge? Are they common? Is that the same thing as an unpowered magma forge? :::has clearly never had this problem, likely because he fill all his magma channels before connecting forges to them, though he can't be sure:::

When you channel magma over to a forge, it doesn't arrive all at once.  The level of magma rises and falls.  When it reaches 4, the forge becomes active; but when it drops below 4, the forge goes inactive, and any jobs on it (including moods) are canceled.  Canceling moods makes the moody dwarf go insane.

A magma forge can flicker for a surprisingly long time.

[sweitx]

I'm fairly sure neither of those work.  As far as I know, moody dwarves decide on their workshop as soon as the mood hits, and will ignore orders forbidding it.  If you deconstruct it they will go mad immediately, and if it is behind a locked door or floodgate they will constantly attempt to reach it until their mood fails.

Which is why you lock/forbid them when you build the forge, and only un-forbid/lock them once they're ready.  Or you just don't build it until there's enough magma in the hole below.

[Aquillion]

I'm fairly sure neither of those work.  As far as I know, moody dwarves decide on their workshop as soon as the mood hits, and will ignore orders forbidding it.  If you deconstruct it they will go mad immediately, and if it is behind a locked door or floodgate they will constantly attempt to reach it until their mood fails.

Which is why you lock/forbid them when you build the forge, and only un-forbid/lock them once they're ready.  Or you just don't build it until there's enough magma in the hole below.

Yes.  If you've read the Wiki and understand the precise mechanics of strange moods, as well as the exact limitations of the AI that lead to this issue.

But it isn't intuitive.  In fact, it makes very little sense overall (why would a moody dwarf grab a forge that is obviously flickering if another, fully-functional magma forge exists right nearby?  Why are moody dwarves sometimes able to use a forge with no fuel or heat, and sometimes not?)  The proposed workarounds add no real depth of strategy; they just punish players for not reading the wiki and not knowing the exact mechanics in play here.  (Well, technically the wiki doesn't actually mention this issue, I think.  But it'll probably be added soon.)  Dwarf fortress shouldn't require that you know all of the exact mechanics underlying everything -- things should make at least a general sense.  This behavior, though, is counter-intuitive on several points.

Anyway, for that reason it's better to just prevent it from being an issue.

[GoneWacko]

From the original post it wasn't very obvious that the mood gets cancelled within seconds. If that happens then yes, I can see how that should be fixed.

My interpretation of the original post was that the moody dwarf had been waiting in his magma forge for a while just like it would have if he'd been a carpenter demanding bone.

On a less related but still-quite-related-indeed note, I think this topic could do with a more descriptive title. I dare say the DF Suggestions forum is full of threads that are about things people would like to see changed.

[Pilsu]

Personally I'd just make magma forges ineligible for moods altogether

That and make artifacts require fuel too. Just gotta make sure a bug doesn't cause it to be used for decor

[Mount]

Moody dwarves select the type of workshop they want to use but I've never seen one choose only one workshop and ignore all others (unless they have already claimed the workshop)

I have had a dwarf cancel his glassmaking at a powered magma forge, and claim a flickering forge....

[Aquillion]

Personally I'd just make magma forges ineligible for moods altogether

That and make artifacts require fuel too. Just gotta make sure a bug doesn't cause it to be used for decor

The problem with this (especially the combination of the two) is -- what if my fortress uses nothing but a magma forge, and never bothered to build a wood-burning forge (or quickly deconstructed it when it wasn't needed anymore?)  There might not even be wood available on my map.

[Neonivek]

what if my fortress uses nothing but a magma forge, and never bothered to build a wood-burning forge

Given that Volcanic sources arn't really going to be safe forever (or stable)... Id say that would be your own fault and you should have kept a backup.

[Aquillion]

Given that Volcanic sources arn't really going to be safe forever (or stable)... Id say that would be your own fault and you should have kept a backup.

What do you mean by that?  Magma forges are fairly safe and reliable if they're used carefully; I haven't heard any plans or suggestions to dramatically alter that.

One goal of the game is to have even inhospitable areas at least marginally survivable.  That means that magma forges should at least have the potential to replace wood forges completely.  I could understand, perhaps, if you feel they should a bit less perfectly safe or less totally better than wood forges; but what you're saying is "You only used a magma forge?  You suck, you fail, you deserve to lose.  Stop cheating so much by only using a magma forge,"  which seems...  extreme.

Magma forges are a valid alternative to wood forges.  I don't see any particular reason, logically, why players should be forced to have wood forges...  if a player wants to focus solely on magma forges, I can't see why you're so dead-set on preventing them from doing so.

It is also quite unintuitive to new players to have it work in the way that was suggested.  Why shouldn't a moody dwarf use a fully-functioning magma forge?  Why would they just stand there doing nothing?  How could player who hasn't read the wiki know that they need a wood-burning forge because magma-forges are, inexplicably, no good for moods?

It just seems like a bad idea.

[Derakon]

From the original post it wasn't very obvious that the mood gets cancelled within seconds. If that happens then yes, I can see how that should be fixed.

The moody dwarf goes insane the instant the forge flickers out, even if only for a moment.

This is the kind of situation where I feel justified in savescumming, since it's so obviously unintended behavior.

Neonivek: I've seen plans to make volcanos (and magma pipes in general) more dangerous, but nothing about making magma itself more dangerous. Seeing as how you can run forges off of isolated pools of magma only 1 tile in size (which is clearly not going to go anywhere), saying that people are unjustified in relying solely on magma for forging/melting/etc. is itself not justifiable.

[Sir_Geo]

Moody dwarves select the type of workshop they want to use but I've never seen one choose only one workshop and ignore all others (unless they have already claimed the workshop)

I have had a dwarf cancel his glassmaking at a powered magma forge, and claim a flickering forge....

By :claim a forge" I mean you literally get the message that the dwarf has claimed a forge not just working at a forge.