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[Labs]

While playing this i realized the amount of potential that this game has is, in one word, breathtaking.

[viskaslietuvai]

Yep, totally abandoned. So that potential is actually 0. All this thing's potential has been realized.
But I totally know what you mean. Remember, many of the features present in this game are in the sequel.

[Okenido]

And if they aren't in they are going to be added in.

Except for 3D graphics.

[qwertyuiopas]

And even then, maybe eventually...

[Dakk]

I wound't like to see DF with 3d graphics, not only it woudn't look as good as ASCII (in my opinion) but it'd also slow down the development of other stuff. I do look forward to isometric graphics or something similar, but no 3d graphics for me.

[cowofdoom78963]

it'd also slow down the development of other stuff.

As well as everyones computer.

[MP2E]

I'd love to see an OpenGL renderer in Dwarf Fortress, however I completely agree with what you are saying. I think the best way to do it would be to have some sort of externalized renderer, or just the option to have ASCII rendering OR OpenGL, so it won't slow the game and the people that like it "the way it should be" don't feel left out I personally would probably trade between the two

[strich]

I wound't like to see DF with 3d graphics, not only it woudn't look as good as ASCII (in my opinion) but it'd also slow down the development of other stuff. I do look forward to isometric graphics or something similar, but no 3d graphics for me.

Why not 3D isometric?
2D isometric is old and dirty. I'd much rather see some 3D isometric with some basic animation and physics. Without thinking this through I believe it'd be less work over-all. Once the engine is in place its a fairly simple matter to keep the game up to the standards of the day by increasing texture size/shadows/shaders/etc.

[Okenido]

Of course such an engine would require years of rewriting the code.

[Keiseth]

Physics and animations aside, *ignoring shaders/shadows/etc* and a few assumptions on the way the code is written, making a quick 3D isometric interface-- the programming aspect, not the finding-textures aspect-- wouldn't take very long at all. Certainly not years. If the game is simply grid-based, and one assumes each tile is a perfect square, then it's actually not all that bad.

However, learning all of the nuances of 3D programming, if you don't already know it- that could take a while, definitely. It can be really confusing.

Additionally, it's another thing to maintain as you add to the game. For that reason, it's probably best to do that last, when the gameplay itself is completed, or you hit a cycle of break-fix-break-fix. Every release you'd have to test- does ASCII work? Does 3D work? Is everything working down to the last detail? If it isn't, how can you fix it?

I'd add that using a 3D interface might make supporting the game more difficult, as that ends up using the graphics card a bit, but in DF's case, it already uses OpenGL for 2D (and a few 3D) graphics.

I'd personally add that sort of thing last if I had another working graphical interface (e.g.; ASCII) but it probably varies from developer to developer.

[Okenido]

I meant implementing animations to the 3D models.

Applying Dwarf Fortress to 3D would take a few months at most, but it wouldn't look that good.

[strich]

Physics and animations aside, *ignoring shaders/shadows/etc* and a few assumptions on the way the code is written, making a quick 3D isometric interface-- the programming aspect, not the finding-textures aspect-- wouldn't take very long at all. Certainly not years. If the game is simply grid-based, and one assumes each tile is a perfect square, then it's actually not all that bad.

However, learning all of the nuances of 3D programming, if you don't already know it- that could take a while, definitely. It can be really confusing.

Additionally, it's another thing to maintain as you add to the game. For that reason, it's probably best to do that last, when the gameplay itself is completed, or you hit a cycle of break-fix-break-fix. Every release you'd have to test- does ASCII work? Does 3D work? Is everything working down to the last detail? If it isn't, how can you fix it?

I'd add that using a 3D interface might make supporting the game more difficult, as that ends up using the graphics card a bit, but in DF's case, it already uses OpenGL for 2D (and a few 3D) graphics.

I'd personally add that sort of thing last if I had another working graphical interface (e.g.; ASCII) but it probably varies from developer to developer.

I understand and agree with what you are saying, but you realize that by saying 'its best to do last' essentially means never. This game appears to have a longer TODO list than a cure for cancer.

On another note, that open source OpenGL implementation - How much code is in there? Enough to write a 3D front end for the game? ...

[IndonesiaWarMinister]

Hmm...

OpenGL, last I heard, could make a pseudo-3D front end.
But I don't know whether we could make one, or real-3D one, for that matter, w/o the game source code.

Also, Toady is better off as a game coder rather than graphic coder.

[Keiseth]

I understand and agree with what you are saying, but you realize that by saying 'its best to do last' essentially means never. This game appears to have a longer TODO list than a cure for cancer.

If they were both finished on the same day, that'd really be a "best day ever", huh?

But I don't know whether we could make one, or real-3D one, for that matter, w/o the game source code.

I think Toady has some reservations on people making their own front-ends and what not. I'm just happy we have a graphically accelerated version, now. The difference is extremely dramatic for me.

[strich]

But I don't know whether we could make one, or real-3D one, for that matter, w/o the game source code.

I think Toady has some reservations on people making their own front-ends and what not. I'm just happy we have a graphically accelerated version, now. The difference is extremely dramatic for me.

Is there honestly a point though? Surely only a small percentage of the total FPS impact is the displaying of graphics at the moment.