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Author Topic: Let's Play Cavewars!  (Read 25231 times)

Mephansteras

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Re: Let's Play Cavewars!
« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2009, 10:10:44 am »

I'll agree with that. Iron armor sounds useful, so let's go with that and then transport tech next to bump up our mounts.

Speaking of which, some mounted dwarves with iron swords would probably be handy when we get a chance. We may have to react to enemy encroachment soon.

Here are a bunch more city names to use:
Datanurdim - Iron Tower
Ubal Alnis - The Spirit of War
Ilonrab - Moonglow
Ekurlam - The Mighty Stone
Umomadil - Darkwall

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Poltifar

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Re: Let's Play Cavewars!
« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2009, 12:26:07 pm »

I'd say go for weapon research now, but hurry up and send people to get the mithril and the city next to it so that you can research cave technology next. Proper dwarves make weapons out of the best quality ores and metals only :P
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RPB

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Re: Let's Play Cavewars!
« Reply #17 on: May 08, 2009, 12:29:44 pm »

Seeing as I'm the sole voice here, I say go for weapons tech.

I for one always blindly obey the voices telling me to get weapons. Weapons tech it is!

Cavalry would definitely be useful as far as mounting offensive operations once we make contact with real enemies, but outfitting mounts takes bronze and we're out of it right now. It's reasonably plentiful but our two engineers are busy building cities, so I construct an iron engineer to go dig up some (which has the added bonus of digging faster than our old bronze ones).

The advancement in weapons tech comes quickly.



Unfortunately even with iron the bows it gives us are even weaker than the old bronze swords we've been using since the beginning, although being able to attack at a range is a plus. Still, they're not going to be very useful for attacking armored units.

It turns out the breach in the wall to the north isn't much to worry about; the cave we broke into is itself pretty isolated other than the tunnel connecting to the lower level, although it's got some more resources to snag so I set an engineer building another city there.



Our research is rolling right along (this is what is called a pune or play on words). As mentioned earlier the first level of transport tech gives us special mounts, like the tortaq (a turtle thing that boosts defense) and munkhabear (a dragonish thing which boosts ranged attacks--this might actually make our iron crossbows worthwhile). Also, having a level in both weapons and transport technology gives us these:



The siege weapons in the "special" category do not use racial base attack stats, so the catapult gives us a ranged attack unit that doesn't suffer the atrocious dwarven ranged penalties. Unfortunately, although their range is excellent their actual damage isn't very impressive; again, that's about as much damage as our bronze swords. Moreover, siege weapons do inherit racial base movement, and have a move penalty on top of that, so these things are slow. They may be useful as a weapon of last resort, though.

While our research is progressing nicely, however, our exploration just hit a brick wall.



A brick wall armed with longbows, for that matter. We have the weapons to force our way through here, although it'll take a while to get them all the way up here.

With the exception of this neutral city blocking the tunnel we've explored the fullest extent of the caves accessible to us, so it's entirely possible we're in an isolated cave network. We won't have to deal with hostile enemies right away, but our growth is limited to the resources available to us. We've got a fair amount of food here for being cut off from most of the map, but if we end up having to compete with a larger enemy we may be in trouble in the long run.

Still, we've got some options now. We can continue working on weapons tech to get guns for when someone does eventually reach us; the earliest guns aren't much of a step up from bows, but more advanced guns will be really useful once we do make contact. As mentioned before cave technology gets us mithril and, at higher levels, boosts our food production which will let us raise a higher population in our limited room.

Alternately, since we know we're not going to have to worry about a stronger race barreling in and running over us right away, we can probably actually afford to work on some magic. If we want to bust out of here this will probably be our best option; once we get out we may be a bit underpowered, but being dwarves it should be fairly easy to catch back up technologically. Viewing magic can help us locate nearby caverns that can be tunneled into. A few levels of earth magic lets us make tunnels instantly via magic; a few levels of teleport magic will let us move units around without leaving tunnels that enemies can use, although we'll probably need some viewing magic to locate places we can actually teleport to.



(P.S. Given how rare mithril is here we're going to have an awful lot of naked unarmed dwarves if we restrict ourselves to the best quality metal only. :P It's really useful stuff but so rare you have to use it sparingly.)
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Poltifar

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Re: Let's Play Cavewars!
« Reply #18 on: May 08, 2009, 01:00:30 pm »

Heh, yeah, I wasn't really serious about the 'only' part. But a few elite units outfitted with mithril wouldnt hurt.

But for now, I vote we continue with weapon research, to get the GUNS!
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Mephansteras

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Re: Let's Play Cavewars!
« Reply #19 on: May 08, 2009, 03:00:39 pm »

Yeah, I say we get ourselves to the point where we own everything in the caverns we are in. Then we can crank up the magic and start breaking out of our shell.
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RPB

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Re: Let's Play Cavewars!
« Reply #20 on: May 09, 2009, 12:58:24 am »

Okay, so the plan is 1. Research better weapons and 2. claim all the resources we can get our grubby paws on. Together this ought to give us a decent base to work from when we go looking for enemies.

In the meantime I do bump up our magic production level juuuuuuust a tad so we'll have a nice stockpile for when we need it later.



But first, a little magical reconnoissance reveals that the area behind the neutral bergbui is in fact spectacularly empty. At least this frees up our units to focus on more important neutral cities elsewhere.



Unarmored swordsdwarves aren't going to cut it against some of the neutrals we've seen, so here's what our current state-of-the art military units look like. The muhnkabear mounts boost their ranged damages to levels that aren't completely laughable and give some much-needed mobility.

Soon we hit our 2nd weapons advancement, which gives us early flintlock guns. As mentioned these aren't much of an advancement over the crossbows we already have, but flintlocks + muhnkabear is overkill for the neutral cities we're looking at taking so I switch over to producing musketeers with tortaq mounts (defense bonus) for survivability.

Our magic stockpile is stacking up pretty well now, so I use our small map spell on the area above our starting caverns.



Those yellow flags mean we're looking at a human infestation. Looks like they've been living right over our heads for a while now. Our cities on the higher level are defenseless and vulnerable if the humans ever make a tunnel down, so I build a few city defenders.



We have gunpowder + transport tech, so we can make cannons now instead of catapults. This will consume metal, but we've got plenty of mines available now. I'm using bronze instead of iron because bronze is obsolete for higher tech weapons, so this is about the best use for piles and piles of bronze (cavalry doesn't use up very much bronze).



New guns!



Incidentally, this is what our weapons production menu looks like nowadays. The bow and crossbow are level 1 weapons and represent a tradeoff between range (bow) or power (crossbow). The pistol/rifle pairs are level 2 and our new level 3 weapons; pistols are weaker but cheaper to produce. Generally I think they're mostly there to pad out the list as there's not a lot of point to using pistols ever. There's also a katana in there; this is a super-powerful melee weapon that shows up at weapons level 2. It does a ton of damage, but it's horrendously labor-intensive and the lack of range kills it. Or to be more specific, bullets kill it.

We've got some decent weapons now (in a hands of a race with better ranged capability, that rifle generally doesn't go quite totally obsolete even in the endgame), our engineers are a couple turns away from having secured all major resources in our area, and we know where the humans are (it'll take about 8 turns for our best engineers to make a tunnel upwards, though).

Plans? We can continue our weapons research, but it may be slow going (research costs ramp up exponentially, so level 4 and 5 take a lot more than level 3). Cave research would get us mithril use and better food production, and slightly speed up dig speeds. Or we could try looking into earth, viewing, or transport magic. (If anyone's curious about the "summon magic" category, it lets you create monster units, which sounds cool but kinda sucks--they're generally pretty weak compared to technological units of equal level and they cost a lot of magic. Considering we're already 3 levels of weapon tech ahead we'd have a hard time getting any use out of it.)
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Mephansteras

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Re: Let's Play Cavewars!
« Reply #21 on: May 09, 2009, 01:12:04 am »

I say we get mithril, build up troops, and go smack the humans.
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WorkerDrone

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Re: Let's Play Cavewars!
« Reply #22 on: May 09, 2009, 03:10:30 am »

WEAPON. RESEARCH.
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Poltifar

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Re: Let's Play Cavewars!
« Reply #23 on: May 09, 2009, 06:42:53 am »

Cave research, for the MITHRIL! Then make some elite mithril-rifle-men on these giant lizard thingy mounts!
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Re: Let's Play Cavewars!
« Reply #24 on: May 09, 2009, 07:12:50 am »

 Start producing something that can take down one of the human cities, while researching cave tech because from what I understand it is a lower level than weapons tech and will upgrade faster. Once that is upgraded, dig up and send the small army you have made up. As you are digging, if you are happy with the number of troops you have, invest heavily in magic.
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Boksi

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Re: Let's Play Cavewars!
« Reply #25 on: May 09, 2009, 08:23:13 am »

We really should go for cave tech and then earth magic.
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RPB

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Re: Let's Play Cavewars!
« Reply #26 on: May 09, 2009, 11:04:47 am »

WEAPON. RESEARCH.

There is more to life than making bigger guns to kill people with! There is also coming up with magic spells so you can kill people with your big guns in creative ways.

Wait, no. We're dwarves. I guess for us it pretty much is just bigger guns.



Here's what our starting cavern looks like nowadays, showing off some of the upgraded city icons. Whenever a city crosses a population threshold the game displays a little kind of popup-book-style animation of the city folding itself flat and then springing back up as the newer, larger type of city. It's pretty cool the first time you play and are watching as your cities grow into cool new forms, but then the game insists on playing this animation every. single. time. a city goes past 50 population, or 150, etc. Unlike most of the game's animations, you can't skip it, either.



An engineer just finished digging this tunnel through several tiles of wall to connect our territory on the bottom floor better. Since the enemies all appear to be up and not down this is unlikely to ever come into play, but our engineers don't have a lot to do right now. The bronze engineer is collecting bronze by itself--you can have engineers collect metal themselves if there's not a city nearby to do it for you. It's usually better to just build a city, especially if there's more than one tile with metal, but again--our engineers have nothing better to do at this point.



Since someone mentioned it, I went ahead and researched a level of earth magic after we got our cave tech up to level 3. The Kavet's Hole/Ladder spells let us dig tunnels up and down instantly, so it's time to take those human SOBs down! By comparison, even if we wasted our extremely limited mithril supplies to make a mithril engineer, it would take 6 turns to dig up or down without magic.

(Beetle Plague is like Eat Metal, except it wrecks food sources instead of metal. In other words, it's still useless.)



Huh. The humans seem to be pretty far behind the tech curve. It's possible these are just their obsolete dregs but I'm not seeing anything more advanced around either.



Even our obsolete units are making short work of the human forces.



That doesn't stop them from trying to put together a counterattack. They're so weak that they're hard pressed to take down our single naked swordsdwarf scouts without casualties, though.



Our scouts find a human engineer trying to tunnel its way to safety. You won't escape that easily, puny hu-mon scum!



Horrors! Hippies from the deep!

This might explain why the humans were so backwards; they were probably bottled up in that cavern and strangled. The elf wannabes don't seem to be any better off, though. We burn their city to get rid of the hippie stench and move on.



It turns out there were worse things than hippies lurking in those depths. The depths above us.

These are a couple of summon creatures, and from the red flags I think they're controlled by... tarchon? Kind of an odd development path to see them take. It looks like they only have 1st and 2nd level summon spells from what we can see. The 2nd level ones are tougher than what the humans and hippies had, but still quite weak. Which means



THEY ARE SCREWED.

We haven't fully explored the offshoots of this new cavern, so it's possible the hippies are still alive off one of its branches. Given how weak they were they can't have too much territory, though. The tarchon look to be a bit stronger but still nowhere near what you'd expect for this stage of the game, so we're going to find one of two things:

1. The four AI empires have been at each others' throats all game and have mostly been too busy with back-and-forth fighting to make any progress; or
2. Having cut through the humans, elves, and soon presumably the tarchon we're going to find something much bigger and badder that had been holding the other three down.

Still, we are doing quite well. Earlier tech levels tended to give us options with a tradeoff either between cost and power, or power and range; level 4 weapons gives us both, with a choice between sniper rifles (more raneg, less power), assault rifles (less range, more power), or submachine guns (strictly weaker than assault rifles, way less cost). Even better, we get spiffy future armor that gives a lot of defense without costing movement (up until now we've been sticking with the level 1 breastplates; the intervening levels of weapons tech give chainmail and plate armor that have movement penalties on them unless you make them out of mithril, but that takes a LOT of mithril and we don't have much.)

It's looking like this might be a short game unless the 4th AI enemy is decently advanced by this point. We got rather lucky with our starting setup. Anyhow, more choices for research now:

-The 5th and final level of weapons tech would give rocket launchers, which end up being a huge disappointment; they take forever to research, are hideously expensive, not that much more powerful than the modern rifles we now have, and impose a movement penalty on our already-slow dwarves. On the other hand, ROCKET LAUNCHERS.
-Transport technology would give us increasingly advanced artillery. Nothing very impressive at first, but later on we would get mobile assault vehicles.
-Cave technology gives us more food. We're doing great for food at the moment, but it's hard to tell whether we're going to be in it for a long haul here.
-Earth magic means more terraforming options.
-Summon magic means crappy irrelevant monsters.
-Viewing magic means faster long-range scouting.
-Transport magic means teleportation.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2009, 11:07:07 am by RPB »
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Poltifar

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Re: Let's Play Cavewars!
« Reply #27 on: May 09, 2009, 11:38:13 am »

Transport Tech, for the TANKS!
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Boksi

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Re: Let's Play Cavewars!
« Reply #28 on: May 09, 2009, 12:03:18 pm »

Viewing and teleportation magic, to make up for our slow movement.

Transport is fine too, but I guess it comes down to which will get done faster.
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Re: Let's Play Cavewars!
« Reply #29 on: May 09, 2009, 01:28:51 pm »

 Viewing magic and tanks.

 As with all strategy games, just research to tanks and flood the enemy with them.
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