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[Lav]

Point taken, but most likely there will be more than enough work for miners and masons to do.

[Goron]

I'll leave my opinion on the matter up to you then- based on a conditional 'busy-ness' factor. If you feel comfortable declaring Goron is too busy to make the blocks, then I vote we use raw stone. if you can comfortably say Goron will not be strained creating blocks in addition to any other duties, then I vote we use blocks.

[Hilscher]

Wrestling skill may be ineffective in combat, but it is the only fallback combat skill that is available for melee fighters until in some new version Toady implements spare weapon carrying.

Regarding the stone issue Hilscher obviously supports using raw stone (and he doesn't even care about color) while Emmanovi is undecided. I'm still in the office but going home soon to start the turn so unless some votes are put for making blocks I'll be using raw stone for tower as well.

Off-game:

We don't control the distribution of 'color' in the subterranean areas where we work and live each day...

Actually, I always control color distribution in subterranean areas by casting the entire living apartment block (dining hall included) from obsidian. :-)

And that's why, my friend, every dwarf carries a pick, axe, or crossbow at all times.

[Emmanovi]

And that's why, my friend, every dwarf carries a pick, axe, or crossbow at all times.

Aye, but there are also dangers should a dwarf lose their close combat weapon, whether by forceful amputation or the weapon becoming stuck in the opponent. Having some wrestling skill as backup is very helpful. I support wrestling as a good starter training skill too, allowing dwarves to gain experience and develop shield using abilities, to avoid sparring injuries that can spoil any future training prospects. I concur that there should be no wrestlers by profession, but I see it as vital that troops gain some wrestling skill. Helps generally in combat, I believe.

If you'd like a decision from me Lav, then I concur that using blocks is an extra extravagance we can do without. I do prefer making constructions out of one colour stone, though, I find it much easier on the eye.

{On a side note, it feels odd being the only one here using this spelling of 'colour'.}

Wrestling skill may be ineffective in combat, but it is the only fallback combat skill that is available for melee fighters until in some new version Toady implements spare weapon carrying.

One can instruct dwarves to carry two weapons, one as a spare, can't one?

[Org]

Wrestling skill may be ineffective in combat, but it is the only fallback combat skill that is available for melee fighters until in some new version Toady implements spare weapon carrying.

One can instruct dwarves to carry two weapons, one as a spare, can't one?
[/quote]
Yes, if one is lost or stuck in, they can pull out another(So if its a mace/hammer/crossbow they dont need one)

[LegoLord]

Raw stone sounds good enough, for the moment at least.  Later, while expanding the tower, we can replace the original parts wall-by-wall with blocks, if we feel like it.

[Lav]

The days pass one by one, and the winter is finally over.

What has been done and what was not:

- Wall was NOT added in front of reservoir door.
- Outer walls and moat were finished.
- Entrance and drawbridge were built in the south wall.
- Water wheel in brook was constructed.
- Two level tower was mostly constructed (only 3 wall sections still not built on the second floor).
- No new picks were forged.
- Pen was not made.
- War dogs were chained at all of the drawbridge entrances in the walls.

Additionally:

- Waterfall was completed (there were already pipes, corkscrews and one block)
- Catwalk over the axles was constructed.
- Living and working space has been expanded somewhat.
- Farms settings were changed for more food variety in the coming seasons (only plump helmets could be grown in Winter so doesn't matter really).
- I also opened the drainage tunnel, mined aluminium and copper out from it and replaced the ore tiles with walls. Yes, I'm a greedy dwarf and I don't like wasting resources that could be used elsewhere. :-)
- Bedrooms on the top floor are ~33% smoothed. I'm tired of scratching my knees at the wall during sleep.

Will upload savegame and map in a minute.

[Goron]

I will now officially open the session for motions.
It is... 3:50 PM EST June 10.
Motions will be accepted for 24 hours until 3:50 PM EST June 11.
(you can look at time this post was made for your own local time to determine your timeframe if you don't want to convert from EST)

The time for motions is over. You cans till second existing motions but no new motions will be accepted. If motions are not seconded by 3:50PM EST June 12, they will auto-fail.
Current motions are:

• Exploratory mining should be done on the entire map (at least one drill per region, preferably more) [Lav] ..... moved and seconded
  For: Lav, Emmanovi, Org, Grail
  Against: Yaddy, Legon
  Abstain: Goron
• The defense of Equalvoice is the honorable duty of every citizen, so every dwarf in the fortress should spend one season per year training in (martial arts and weapon use). [Lav] ..... moved and seconded
  For: Lav, Emmanovi, Org, Grail
  Against: Yaddy, Goron, Legon
• Non-player dwarves are not citizens.[Lav][Grail][Goron] ..... moved and seconded
  For:Lav, Emmanovi, Org, Grail, Goron, Legon
  Against: Yaddy
• Vountary military service.[Grail][Goron] ..... moved and seconded
  For: Lav, Emmanovi, Org, Goron, Grail, Legon
• NO WRESTLERS[Grail]..... moved and seconded
  For:Grail
  Against: Lav, Org, Legon
  Abstain: Yaddy, Goron
• No wrestlers by profession[Emmanovi]..... moved and seconded
  For: Emmanovi, Lav, Org
  Against:Yaddy, Legon
  Abstain: Goron
• Establish a militia program. Initial 5 dwarves activated but standing down in training.[Grail]..... moved and seconded
  For:Grail, legon
  Against: Lav, org, Yaddy
  Abstain: Goron
• Designate a bookkeeper, at least part time. [Goron] ..... moved and seconded
  For: Emmanovi, YAddy, Goron, Legon
  Against:Grail
  Abstain: Org
• No mandatory training. Citizens must opt in for training[Goron] ..... moved and seconded
  For:Yaddy, Goron, Legon
  Against: Emmanovi, Lav, org, Grail
• Institute an emergency draft option for crowd control purposes.[Goron] ..... moved and seconded
  For: Emmanovi, Lav, Yaddy, Goron, Legon
  Against: Grail
• Sheriff/Captain of the Guard is an elected position.[Emmanovi] ..... moved and seconded
  For: Emmanovi, Lav, Yaddy, Goron, Grail, legon
  Against: (Org?),
  
  • Sheriff/Captain of the Guard position is held until replaced by a standard motion and vote.[Emmanovi]
    For: Emmanovi, Lav,
    Against: (Org?)
  • Sheriff/Captain of the Guard position is held for a term[Grail]
    For:Grail, Legon
    Against: Emmanovi, Lav (Org?)
• The Sheiff/Captain of the Guard should have some degree of control over military matters and justice (discussion needed)[Lav] ..... moved and seconded
  For: Emmanovi, Lav, Yaddy, Grail, Legon
  Against:
  Abstain: Goron
• Construct a War Room[Goron] ..... moved and seconded. Two plans available at the moment: Lav's, Grail's.
  For:Yaddy, Goron, Legon
  Against: Org, Grail
  Abstain: Emmanovi, Lav
• Build a Session Hall. Large enough for the entire population, with podiums for the chair and director[Goron] ..... moved and seconded
  For:Goron, Legon
  Against:Org, Yaddy, Grail
  Abstain: Emmanovi, lav
• Craft instruments to be used in the session hall during the pomp and fanfare of the start and end of sessions[Goron] ..... moved and seconded
  For:Goron, Grail, Legon
  Against: Emmanovi
  Abstain: Lav, Yaddy
• Commission statues of each new chair and director[Goron] ..... moved and seconded
  For:Goron, Grail, Legon
  Against: Emmanovi. Lav, org, Yaddy
• Build a Chair's Hall and Director's Hall to be lined with statues of Chairdwarfs and Directors[Goron] ..... moved and seconded
  For:Goron, Legon
  Against: Emmanovi, Lav, org, Yaddy, Grail
• Complete the perimeter by digging the moat through rock in the north-east and south-west sections.[Lav]..... moved and seconded
  For: Emmanovi, Lav, Org, Legon
  Against:
  Abstain: Yaddy, Goron
• Current and future dwarves are always tasked with animal care.[Emmanovi].....moved and seconded
  For: Emmanovi, Goron, Legon
  
• Increase fortress wealth.[Emmanovi].....moved and seconded
  • By creating trade goods, or
  • making well-crafted furniture and installing it, or
  • decorating current items with bone, gem, metal and the like
  For: Emmanovi, Legon
  Against:
  Abstain: Goron
• Set up barracks and archery range (in tower).[Emmanovi].....moved and seconded
  For: Emmanovi, Legon, Goron
  Against:
  Abstain:
• At first sign of a skulking kobold or evil goblin, station an able marksdwarf at the above ground entrance until a reasonable amount of time passes, to assume that there are no others about.[Emmanovi].....moved and seconded
  For: Emmanovi, Legon
  Against:
  Abstain: Goron
• Designate four statue room as a meeting hall.[Emmanovi].....moved and seconded
  For: Emmanovi, Legon
  Against: Goron
  Abstain:
• Construct an outdoor refuse pile[Lav].....moved and seconded
  For: Lav, Legon
  Against: Goron
  Abstain:
• Expand the current refuse pile[Emmanovi].....moved and seconded
  For: Emmanovi, Goron, Legon
• Director works a one-year term instead of one-season term[Lav].....moved and seconded
  For: Lav, Emmanovi, Legon
  Against:
  Abstain: Goron
• Build ballista towers flanking the fortress perimeter. Four total. [Lav]..... moved and seconded
  For: Lav, Legon
  Against: Goron
  Abstain:
• Exectutive Judicial positions in place to check elected executive positions[Grail]..... moved and seconded
  For: Grail, Legon
  Against:
  Abstain:
• Draft a charter[Grail]..... moved and seconded
  For: Grail, Emmanovi, Legon
• Draft a bill of rights[Grail]..... moved and seconded
  For: Grail, Legon
  Against:
  Abstain:

[/list]

[Emmanovi]

Are we to assume that all previously mentioned motions have now been officially made and may be voted on, or should we remotion?

[Goron]

Are we to assume that all previously mentioned motions have now been officially made and may be voted on, or should we remotion?

i was busy editing my last post while u wrote that... see above:-)

[LegoLord]

I vote against such extensive exploratory mining.  If we do too much, we won't have any good, large spaces for digging any future subterranean mega-projects we may end up having.  I suggest we keep exploratory mining to a single area and just let the natural growth of the fort do exploratory mining for us everywhere else.

Besides, we can only use the resources we find by the latter method so quickly - the prior method can wait until we need it.

I will vote nay for one-season-per-year military training.  Dwarves could get into military lock if they stayed in the fort too long.

I vote aye for motions 3-16 (top to bottom, as they all sound reasonable to me), and volunteer for the militia, assuming that our militia stands as the line of defense handled by civilians in the event of an extreme emergency.

[Lav]

Technical

Map:
http://mkv25.net/dfma/map-6017-liberty-y1t4

Save:
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=1093

Motions

I motion to complete the perimeter by digging the moat through the rock in the north-east and south-west sections. Current defense not only allows any archer to fire freely over the inner yard, but allows him to actually walk over our walls, choosing a better firing position.

I'll re-vote tomorrow after looking at discussion status. Mostly will confirm my earlier votes but still.

[Goron]

I will now plead my case for several of my motions in hope of hearing some support and to see them seconded:

Designate a bookkeeper, at least part time. [Goron] ..... moved

I think it is important to have someone keeping track of how much stuff we have. We need to designate someone to at least part time count our crap. That way we know how much food we have, how many drinks we got, etc. It will become especially important as our fortress grows. Since these are OUR goods, not the Kings, it becomes all the more important to know what WE have...

No mandatory training. Citizens must opt in for training[Goron] ..... moved

To make training mandatory removed the basic concept of liberty from our fortress. People lose the ability to choose for themselves. Mandatory training is a against all that we are supposed to stand for- and I cannot dare to see it happen. Many people have posied arguments that training is essential for self defense in emergency situations- well, thats what my proposed Emergency Draft is for. Rather than forcing a dwarf to train, just for the chance they may be ambushed, is absurd when instead we can have a measure that is just as effective, if not more effective (since the dwarf will be forced to run to safety rather than try and fight a squad alone, or run the wrong way) that requires no action or deprivation of liberty up until that possible emergency moment occurs.

Construct a War Room[Goron] ..... moved. Two plans available at the moment: Lav's, Grail's.

I think someone actually did second this, but during my quick look I couldn't find it, so rather than risk falsely saying someone seconded it I left it as moved... but... we need a war room. All great fortresses should have a war room for... umm.... war stuff to happen in...

 

Build a Session Hall. Large enough for the entire population, with podiums for the chair and director[Goron] ..... moved

We need a grand session hall for our sessions to take place in. A hall that supports the function as it. One that will not be housing people eating, or animals roaming, or migrants milling around during our sessions. We need a designated hall. Lav has designed an awesome hall for us to use. (Since you never explicitly 'seconded' it, I am only counting this as moved)

Build a Chair's Hall and Director's Hall to be lined with statues of Chairdwarfs and Directors[Goron] ..... moved

Being Chairdwarf or Director is an honorable position. One that should be recognized. And, where else will we put the statues that are motioned and seconded to be commissioned?

[Emmanovi]

My apologies. I guess I was too quick off the mark. 

    * Exploratory mining should be done on the entire map (at least one drill per region, preferably more) [Lav] ..... moved and seconded
- Aye, to an extent. We could do with a core sample of the area, so long as the drilling is simple and non-intrusive, in areas where we are not to build for some time.
    * The defense of Equalvoice is the honorable duty of every citizen, so every dwarf in the fortress should spend one season per year training in (martial arts and weapon use). [Lav] ..... moved and seconded
- Aye. I've given my reasons for this before.
    * Non-player dwarves are not citizens.[Lav][Grail][Goron] ..... moved and seconded
- Aye, this system makes sense.
    * Vountary military service.[Grail][Goron] ..... moved and seconded
- Aye, of course. No dwarf shall be forced to fight.
    * NO WRESTLERS[Grail] ..... moved
- On the understanding that this is no wrestlers by profession, aye.
    * Establish a militia program. Initial 5 dwarves activated but standing down in training.[Grail] ..... moved
- Currently, this is half of our current numbers. Removing such figures from the fortress work is too much, IMO. I would be fine with one or two volunteers, but not too many at this stage.
    * Designate a bookkeeper, at least part time. [Goron] ..... moved
- Aye, although it should be voted on who is to take this role.
    * No mandatory training. Citizens must opt in for training[Goron] ..... moved
- Nay, I am of the opinion that citizens should have some training by default. I am aware of the loss of liberty, but I prefer this to the loss of security. Unless and until more of a show of willingness to defend our dwarves is declared by some members, I fear for the safety of our citizens.
    * Institute an emergency draft option for crowd control purposes.[Goron] ..... moved and seconded
- I was under the impression this measure already existed. I vote for it, anyhow.
    * Sheriff/Captain of the Guard is an elected position.[Lav] ..... moved and seconded
- Aye.
          o Sheriff/Captain of the Guard position is held until replaced by a standard motion and vote.[Lav]
- Aye. (Didn't I propose the above two, not Lav?)
          o Sheriff/Captain of the Guard position is held for a term[Grail]
- Nay. The role doesn't seem significant enough to warrant seasonal election, besides, a military needs some sense of consistency in its leadership. They can be replaced at any time via a vote.
    * The Sheiff/Captain of the Guard should have some degree of control over military matters and justice (discussion needed)[Lav] ..... moved and seconded
- I feel this is difficult to vote on until we have decided to what extent. For now, I vote aye, but what we are voting on is unclear.
    * Construct a War Room[Goron] ..... moved. Two plans available at the moment: Lav's, Grail's.
- I will abstain for now. I like the idea, but I recognise that it may be a waste of resources for the moment.
    * Build a Session Hall. Large enough for the entire population, with podiums for the chair and director[Goron] ..... moved
- As above, abstain.
    * Craft instruments to be used in the session hall during the pomp and fanfare of the start and end of sessions[Goron] ..... moved and seconded
- In a gameplay note? Nay. In a forum pomp and circumstance note? Aye!
    * Commission statues of each new chair and director[Goron] ..... moved and seconded
- I agree with Grail (I believe it was Grail) in that we should only commission statues to commemorate those that have fallen, or those that have done a particularly heroic or important service for Equalvoice.
    * Build a Chair's Hall and Director's Hall to be lined with statues of Chairdwarfs and Directors[Goron] ..... moved
- ... following on from my previous vote, I must say nay to this also.

I motion to complete the perimeter by digging the moat through the rock in the north-east and south-west sections. Current defense not only allows any archer to fire freely over the inner yard, but allows him to actually walk over our walls, choosing a better firing position.

Seconded. I hadn't considered that possibility.

[Goron]

I vote aye for motions 3-16 (top to bottom), and volunteer for the militia, assuming that our militia stands as the line of defense handled by civilians in the event of an extreme emergency.

hmmm... you do realize two of those are mutually exclusive.... not to mention 'subsets' of a motion?
Specifically this motion:

• Sheriff/Captain of the Guard is an elected position.[Lav] ..... moved and seconded
  
  • Sheriff/Captain of the Guard position is held until replaced by a standard motion and vote.[Lav]
  • Sheriff/Captain of the Guard position is held for a term[Grail]